Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Jackie De Burca: Hi there, this is Jackie De Burca and you're listening to Constructive Voices. Today we're joined by someone who lives where safety, sustainability and real world delivery meet. This is David Picton. He's the Senior Vice President of Safety and and Sustainability at Eco Online, a former Chief Safety and Sustainability Officer, a UN SDG presenter and a leader with routes that run from military logistics to the heart of the built environment.
Now in this conversation with me, David gets very practical. We talk about lone workers, how to protect them, the culture shifts that turn compliance into safety first, and what extreme weather now means for for construction sites. We go everywhere from heat, stress to storms. And he brings some really excellent case studies and hard won lessons from major players that you'll know. So whether it is that you're a builder, a manager or you influence in some shape or form how the work gets done on site, this one is for you. You're going to learn also about some cost effective moves that even smaller firms can act on today. This is Constructive Voices. David, it's brilliant to be in conversation with you again. Would you mind introducing yourself with the aud?
[00:01:25] David Picton: Thanks, Jackie. Yep. So I'm David Picton. I'm the Senior Vice President of Safety and Sustainability here at Eco Online. I've been with the team for about four and a half years. We're a technology company with software focused on protecting people and the planet. Been around for nearly 25 years now, specifically looking at areas like environment, health, safety, chemical management and climate solutions like greenhouse gas accounting, net zero climate risk. So I've worked in sustainability for the past 15 years or so. I was previously a Chief Safety and Sustainability Officer, had the honour of presenting to the United nations back in 2016 on their sustainable development goals and also managed to achieve the Queen's Award for Sustainable Development.
And to be fair, I've worked with some great industry partners around this world as well, like business in the community. And I was one of the original board directors for the built environments supply chain sustainability school.
[00:02:15] Jackie De Burca: Fantastic. So you've actually had a fascinating career because, you know, before these executive roles that you've just mentioned, you also were in the military. And so your career spans from, you know, military to the these executive roles. What's the common thread that you feel might connect all of those stages of your working life, David?
[00:02:33] David Picton: Yeah, that's a great question, as you say. Indeed. I've been very blessed to have a fabulous range of experiences and opportunities as you say peacekeeping, combat operations as a senior logistics officer in the military. And that's through to companies like Motorola, sky tv. I founded my own consultancy and I've got this wonderful role here at Eco Online and probably a couple of common threads, I would think. Genuinely, I've been stretched and challenged in new, very different environments on a regular basis. So I've had to learn fast and rely on others as well. You know, by talking and listening to and learning from their expertise. I've had to adapt to change and almost reinvent myself on a couple of occasions. I lived through the new world order that emerged after the end of the Cold War, saw the transition from analog processes to the Internet and the digital age taken on board powerful handheld computers with local location based services.
This sort of seismic shift in how we use and analyze information, really. Another common thread really has been leadership, to be honest. A very common element, really. Working directly to lead teams or trying to be a thought leader by influence, which obviously a bit more subtle and a bit more difficult.
[00:03:41] Jackie De Burca: Okay, excellent, brilliant answer. Now, what motivated you, David, to focus so much of your career on the built environment and the infrastructure sector?
[00:03:51] David Picton: Oh, yeah, well, I think it's genuinely one of society's oldest and most established sectors. And if you think as a society and as communities we've been building for millennia, of course, you know, it's a tough sector though. But I think it can be highly rewarding. And I've seen some complex, fascinating and very positive things over that time.
You know, I was once asked a question on stage quite early on after being appointed as a chief safety and Sustainability officer. And a journalist said to me, isn't construction destructive by its very nature? But actually, you know, I found often the opposite, really.
It can be a chance to create, to shape new structures. And if you do it right in the way you do it, it can genuinely make life better for so many people. Not just with the creations you've made, but the way you've actually done them as well. But to be honest, one part that is really key about the built environment, I think for me is the supply chain. My professional journey started as a buyer and a supplier. And construction relies so fundamentally on the relationships across that chain of activity that the supply chain has been really important and still remains fascinating for me today.
[00:04:55] Jackie De Burca: Okay, very interesting. Can you recall a moment, David, maybe in a boardroom or on site somewhere when the importance of health, safety or ESG truly hit home for you?
[00:05:07] David Picton: Yeah, indeed. I often say this as well, because my favorite moment in safety was when I was visiting one of our major roads bypass projects one day, a huge piece of work spanning for years, and we were about to go on site, so I was chief safety officer going on site, really. So we had our PPE on and we were ready to go. But just as we were entering, you know, the red gate, if you will, that you cross into that takes you onto a live site, a young female apprentice just stopped me and said, excuse me, I think you've forgotten to put on your safety glasses. Which indeed I had, you know, I had them in my pocket, but I hadn't just put them on everything else. I had gloves, helmet, you know, boots and whatnot. I love in that moment that she had the confidence and the permission, even as a fairly junior team member, to call out safety issues when she saw them. And I loved that. That was that moment when safety hit home for me. It was about the permission to call out safety issues.
[00:05:58] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, that is brilliant. And obviously it shows the kind of culture that was there at that time that she felt enabled, you know, to be able to do that.
Lone workers, David, are obviously especially vulnerable on sites. Why is this issue so critical today and how do you feel it's evolving.
[00:06:14] David Picton: Yeah, lone work is a significant challenge in the case. I mean, it's rising significantly. Area we've got up to 9 million loan workers in the UK alone, really, and those numbers are increasing. That's almost a quarter of UK workers now. It might not be all the time. And that can be one of the risky areas too, because those folks might be overlooked. They might be lone working just for a few hours, but it's not their normal setting, if you like. So they may not be used to some of the challenges of loan working, really, but it brings a unique series of risk factors simply because they work alone, you know, if they have a problem, an accident or a challenge, they might not immediately get help with that. And specifically in construction, I think, because these can be hazardous environments, they're involving heavy equipment, often exposure to the weather, some security aspects, you know, with the materials and the equipment they're using. But there can be more subtle issues as well, like mental health issues from isolation and being lonely, if you like, you know, particularly for people who do need to feed off others as well.
So it presents some real supervision and management challenges as well. So the lone worker issue really is critical and it's getting more significant as those numbers rise.
[00:07:23] Jackie De Burca: So what does good practice look like in protecting those workers, you know, from both a cultural and a tech perspective?
[00:07:30] David Picton: Yeah, indeed. I think that the first point is there's no magic bullet really. There's many layers to the approach really, which includes thorough risk assessments, comprehensive training, effective emergency procedures that you test and you make sure they actually do work and they are effective. But really at the heart of it all is this establishing this culture of engagement and communication that's crucial because you need those regular updates to reflect changing circumstances and get feedback as people learn how that works. Technology is vital, no doubt about it, to make sure that lone workers have got the right resources and support to work safely. That can be as simple as smartphones or similar mobile work devices with some appropriate software for tracking, making contact, keeping in contact, or setting emergency alarms if they need to. I mean, if you look at what we do with Eco Online's lone worker software, we're keeping over 100,000 employees safe globally every day with that sort of software. So lane workers themselves need to be a part of that, but they also need to be proactive in reporting potential hazards, speaking out, things that they're worried about, if you like, and making sure they use the right safety measures.
[00:08:41] Jackie De Burca: Okay. I mean obviously those are very significant numbers, over 100,000 worldwide. With Eco Online clients, do you have any particular powerful real world examples of, you know, where the loan worker safety has actually been taken to the next level?
[00:08:56] David Picton: Yes, indeed. One that comes to mind, I think from one of our clients, Jones, Lang, LaSalle, JLL. You know, they've got around 80,000 staff worldwide and 200 loan workers in the UK particularly now those JLL loan workers are mobile technicians. They're carrying out maintenance work at various properties, you know, things like roof work, filter changing, cleaning coils and what have you. Now of course they've had fall protection training and equipment, comprehensive health and safety policies, but they often work alone at heights and they did a trial phase and then subsequent adoption of our lone worker technology.
For example, they would log their arrival and safe departure from each external visit they're doing just at the press of a button. Then managers get an alert. If a team member doesn't check in safely or has an accident, the managers can then locate them and get some help and there's a sort of man down alert if you like. If an employee hasn't moved for a period of time, the system will generate a non movement alert. So it's, it's active as well as being reactive, if you see what I mean.
[00:10:00] Jackie De Burca: Okay, that sounds excellent. Back in the day I used to do health and safety videos a good few decades ago and you know, that's so it's progressed to such a level now.
[00:10:14] David Picton: Very, very different from when I first started as well.
[00:10:16] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, absolutely. I think you and I are of the same sort of genre in terms of when you talked about the analog and all that. I absolutely identify with all that stuff. Climate change, Davis. It's already disrupting construction in all sorts of ways. Heat waves, storms, floods. What do you see as the biggest risks for site safety and delivery?
[00:10:36] David Picton: Yeah, exactly. As you say, it sort of baked into the title course of sights. You know, they are exposed. You know, they're exposed to that extreme weather. And particularly it's a problem in other areas of the world. We've often seen that, but it's increasingly now affecting the UK and Ireland and areas of Europe now as well, where site workers are exposed to the elements. Some of the storms we've seen coming through bring, you know, high winds, heavy rain. That can be a real issue with equipment being damaged or scaffolding, if you like, coming apart or just. Just the rain, really, which can create clearly floodwater. It can become contaminated through runoff or just add to the risk of slips, trips and falls with mud. It doesn't take much for some of these sites to be transformed into a Glastonbury quagmire, which can be a real, real challenge. But extreme heat is actually one of those issues that's really starting to rise now around the world. There's something like 70% of workers are thought to be exposed to heat stress at some stage during the year. And if you just look in the UK alone, the UK's Health Security Agency, 2,295 deaths associated with heat periods in the summer of 2023. So it is a problem that's coming closer to home and particularly for construction, that issue of heat. Because of course, this is a problem of physical labour. In hot conditions, quite often there can be a lack of shade, difficult to get proper hydration. And if people aren't used to this, of course there's a bit of a lack of acclimatization as well. So they might push on without realizing how much they're heating up, if you like, or. And this is worse, and it does worry me a little bit, they might feel like they can't speak about it and raise those concerns. You know, they might feel like they can't talk about it because there's perhaps an expectation they'll just push on or there's pressure, if you like, on getting the job done. But at the other end of the spectrum, it can also be extreme cold. You know, it very quickly can change. And we've seen this, these extreme weather fronts blowing through, bringing air from Siberia and rapidly cooling things going back a few years, Beast from the east, for example, going back to 2018, I think. So this can really cause hypothermia, frostbite as well. So at either end of the spectrum it can be a problem. We've also got a thought leadership platform here at Eco Online that we call the Situation Room. And our topic this month is air quality. So it's surprising how climate change can also affect pollution levels too. So many different areas in which climate change is potentially disrupting construction.
[00:12:56] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, I mean, just air quality alone is such a huge topic, isn't it? It's great that you have that. That sort of environment that you're investigating at this month from your own perspective. David, obviously some of the companies that we could talk about, the likes of Costain or the EPS group, how are they getting ahead of these threats?
[00:13:13] David Picton: Yeah, indeed. Let's just do Costain first. Particularly, I think, really They've got nearly three and a half thousand people across the UK's energy, water, transport and defence sectors, so some pretty demanding sectors that they're serving. They've been working with us for around a decade now and recognizing the power of data visibility and that data visibility is really how they're helping to manage the health, safety and environmental assurance. They started out with an incident and injury reporting system, but they've expanded that to cover additional insights from waste management, contract risk targeting and risk libraries as well. And what that's done particularly is to encourage reporting. In the first six months that they were working with the System, they identified 790 actions and that was 140% increase over the previous same period. Now, what we've seen is experience clearly shows that when you increase reporting, and that's directly related to improving safety standards and cutting accidents. So that's at the heart of using that data to move towards, if you like, a predictable sort of position.
If we switch across to the EPS group, they're focused on the global water sector and they're focused particularly on loan worker issues, which we've touched on. Of course. Of course, that's around a quarter of their employees now focused on water, that they're working alone on different sites, particularly with environmental risks like working near deep water and with automatic machinery as well. And they were making use of timed sessions, you know, so timing when they were supposed to be on site and making sure there was alerts sent if, if that was exceeded. And also given the nature of where they work as well using a low signal mode on the app to make sure that they can still get some messages through or get alerts through if needed.
[00:14:55] Jackie De Burca: Sure, yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense. So yeah, it's complex but you know, such important work that Eco Online is able to do for your customers. What about the smaller and the mid sized firms, how are they able to realistically prepare for, you know, the likes of extreme weather without the bigger budgets that the bigger players have?
[00:15:15] David Picton: Indeed, that's right. In fact we do a lot of work with mid market firms, you know, and smaller firms as well, specifically as you say, because of the importance of that.
And I think the advice, I think there is that without those huge budget, as you say, I think it's important to focus on practical cost effective measures, almost prioritise where you can have the most positive impacts. For me, that always starts with risk assessments to identify the most crucial aspects of the business where those highest risks, if you like, are where you have the quick and best impacts and focus your protection efforts there. It's important to have business continuity planning as well, outlining procedures if you like different extreme weather scenarios which can include things as simple as communication, you know, how will we keep in touch, cross training to make sure people have got skills that can cover across for other people if they're not available and they're not able to get in. And also looking at alternative suppliers. So there's different ways of getting materials or services if there's disruptions in the supply chain. So really I think even without those huge budgets, really it's quite often possible to focus on anything that will increase resilience and preparedness. It might even be basic equipment such as a generator if you like, to ensure you've got some basic power, you know, if there's a power cut and so on. But fundamentally engaging the work teams for their feedback too, you know, it's amazing how much the workforce knows and can influence if you, if you get them involved in shaping those solutions even without, you know, huge budgets.
[00:16:41] Jackie De Burca: Great answer. And I just think going back to our episodes when we focused on, you know, your most important place, it's the same thing. Those workers are out in those environments all the time, so they're observing, they have the awareness and you know, if they can feed back to the management, that makes much more sense.
[00:16:59] David Picton: It does. And you tend to find solutions are much more wholesome, they're much more, you know, embedded and integrated if you like. If people that have to use them feel they've had a chance to shape them.
[00:17:09] Jackie De Burca: Absolutely, yeah. Makes, makes perfect sense. Now there is a growing awareness around obviously the likes of chemical and environmental risks as well on construction sites. What do you feel, David, are some of the more overlo dangers in this particular area?
[00:17:22] David Picton: Yes, indeed. Construction work I think has probably got more hazards than almost any other type of employment. I think, you know, agriculture and manufacturing got some challenges really, but construction work, you know, is, is a challenge but, but done safely, you know, these can be managed, but it does require this far higher level of attention and active involvement than most sectors. And as I think I mentioned before, this idea of regular risk assessments to reflect that dynamic nature as things change. So I think some of the most overlooked areas and hazards would indeed be chemicals, from corrosive liquids to solvents, paints, foams, glues, you know, there's, there's an almost inexhaustible range of potential issues that you can have with those things. It's crucial that these have got those proper risk assessments, the most up to date safety data sheets to reflect any change. They've got advice on how to handle them safely, training to use them, the equipment as well, of course, and fundamentally vital that they've got the proper storage. You know, that's some an area where occasionally corners can be cut. But storage is essential, of course, to make sure these things are controlled. Training and retraining is essential too. So that familiarity with using them, which is good, but familiarity doesn't turn into complacency or potentially even irresponsible behavior. I once heard of solvent being placed in a drinking cup because it was convenient. But of course a drinking cup on site, for goodness sake.
It's very easy to make silly mistakes or complacent irresponsible things from time to time. And of course extreme weather can make these even more risky. You know, with heat, of course, turning some of those compounds, which can be quite volatile, into vapor, which can really become explosive or rain, as I think I mentioned earlier on with groundwater contamination. But some of the other overlooked dangers, if you like, go beyond chemicals and include dust and airborne particles. Most of us, I think, have heard about asbestos and it's pretty well known now over the years. But silica dust is less so and leads directly to very, very dangerous silicosis. And back to what we were saying about air quality. We need effective filters, masks and again, the right data sheets and risk assessments for activities like that.
And you've got legacy materials, particularly in areas where we're doing retrofit work and so on that can go beyond asbestos Things like lead paints or contaminated ground. But you know, what's particularly overlooked, I think in all of these cases are not so much the immediate risks, which you can be a little easier to see, but the longer term insidious and cumulative effects over time of exposure. Now that's not quite so obvious like a fall or contact with machinery, but it's a hazard nonetheless and can be just as fatal if it's not properly protected against and managed.
[00:19:57] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, that's massively important. Of course, all sorts of horrible things can happen from exposure over time. Now, platforms like Eco Online Davis, how do you feel they can, you know, support better control and visibility, particularly around these hazardous, hazardous materials. Materials.
[00:20:15] David Picton: I think where we would start and what's fundamental is the information that's associated with those platforms. You know, and there's a lot of platforms out there, you know, there's a lot of help and support that construction particularly can get, really. But those platforms, that information really deals in safety data, documentation, safer alternatives, QR codes, you know, easy access. It's designed to be easy to use. And that idea is to support that risk assessment and safety first culture, which is really about helping individuals to take responsibility for observations, reporting and actions. Of course, none of the system will do it for them. It's about them having a system they can use and take individual accountability.
But I think it comes to the heart of training and learning as well. And it is that initial training, you know, as you onboard people bring them into an organization, but then that ongoing refresher training as well, and not just for directly employed staff too, because it's just as important that that training and awareness is there for contractors and visitors too, of course.
[00:21:13] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:21:15] David Picton: And I think overall, as you, as you build on that, really that then helps you to track compliance so you can meet minimum standards and go beyond that as well if you like, and then start to generate some insights. So you go along a maturity journey, a data maturity journey, if you like, connecting data and patterns and trends and deeper analysis to blend it with other systems and sources of data.
[00:21:36] Jackie De Burca: In your perspective, were there any kind of like standout practices or innovations that, you know, you felt really improved risk management?
[00:21:45] David Picton: Yeah, we touched on JLL earlier. So I think if I pick up NG Bailey now in this case, the breadth of sectors they serve, they're looking at nuclear energy, manufacturing, education, healthcare, transport, sports, retail. You know, goodness me, that's just pretty much every sector you can imagine really. And what stands out for me, I think the standout process practice there is their program of safety first and foremost. They've had that program for about 18 years now, setting that as a core principle of how they do their work. And they're backing that up with some consolidated environmental health and safety software from us that allows them to connect, communicate with, and then empower their line managers. So they're pushing that ability to act and make decisions down to that line management level. Now, all of that's brought it all together in one place, and you can see how that's been recognized as for the impact. So the positive impacts that it's had because they've achieved something like 17 consecutive Ross per Gold awards. They've had gold medals and four orders of distinction. So when you look at what NG Bailey are doing there, you can see that they're empowering people. They're bringing that information together, gaining those insights, really, but particularly being recognized for the impacts they're having as well.
[00:22:55] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, that's absolutely wonderful because, you know, it becomes a success, not just something that has to be done to keep, you know, keep people safe, etc. Now, the phrase safety culture, David, it can kind of seem like sometimes a bit of a buzzword. How do you personally define it and how do you build it?
[00:23:13] David Picton: Yeah, indeed, for me, it's at the heart of effective safety management. I think you can shape and design the right programs, policies, and systems, but they will struggle to keep people safe, I think, if the folks that have to use them aren't properly trained, engaged, and involved in bringing it to life. So for me, I define it as the behaviors, the language, the actions that you'd see every day in the sites and the project locations, but also in the offices of that organization. Crucially, a safety culture exists from all people at all levels. And you'd build it by hearing leaders talking about it regularly, opening every meeting with a safety moment, for example, you know, and asking about safety every day. You'd build it by seeing workers engaging with risk reporting through programs like Don't Walk by in a very simple don't walk by that, you know, report it, do something about it, say something about it. And it would be live as well. This. This dynamic sense that there was no job so urgent that you couldn't take the time to do it safely. And that's a phrase I often remember. Even when I'm doing some DIY at home. I catch myself, I think, put your glasses on because, you know, there's nothing so urgent.
[00:24:21] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, no, it's a great. It's a great saying and it makes a lot of sense and it's so interesting to hear somebody such, such an expert like yourself catching yourself in a DIY situation. Because then we're. We potentially let our barriers down, don't we? Because we're not in work mode.
[00:24:34] David Picton: We do. And, you know, one of my favorite conversations was when I was a Chief safety officer, I was with one of our operational managing directors and we were investigating an incident, an accident where someone had been hurt and injured. And, you know, he said to me something which, which stuck with me forever, really. He said, we put all this effort, time and resource into investigating incidents once they've happened, but I want to put that level of tension and effort in before they happen to make sure they don't.
[00:24:58] Jackie De Burca: Yeah, that's absolutely it.
Going back to barriers, what are the biggest barriers, David, that you have seen, you know, when you're trying to shift from sort of a compliance mindset to a safety first mindset?
[00:25:10] David Picton: Yeah, I think one of the biggest barriers, I think, is recognizing the value of going beyond checklists and just doing the minimum. So this is recognizing that moving on to that safety first mindset can be actually a competitive advantage in the end, in terms of, you know, the way you do your business. So it's not a burden, it's actually a potential commercial advantage, really, if you get it right. And we look back on some of the research we've done recently, we've heard leaders talking about their specific challenges, things like workforce technology adoption. So if you, if you bring some technology to a workforce, it's absolutely fundamental to involve them in shaping that implementation right from the start, so they feel it's being done with them rather than done to them. They've got some areas and concerns like gaps and silos between business units, you know, so the challenge, if you like, of connecting that information across those business units and learning from each other and sharing, and I think that for me to move from that compliance mindset to a safety first mindset, there's a recognition that you need to keep at it consistently, repeatedly, day by day, in order to embed it firmly across the organisation and make it stick. It's not a quick fix that we can achieve overnight and then just forget about it.
[00:26:19] Jackie De Burca: No, it certainly isn't. And as you said earlier on, David, it's something that not only has it to be right across the organization from office to site, from, you know, a new start to the top level management, it also needs to be repeated, doesn't it, time and time again, which is so important. Now, I know you've given a couple of you know, interesting examples of some of your clients. Are there any that come to mind when you sort of say, okay, now we have great safety culture in action?
[00:26:46] David Picton: Yeah, indeed. There's two that really spring to mind for me. There was a program that we ran going back a few years called One Right Choice.
And the idea is leaders were regularly emphasizing that there was only one right choice and that was the safe choice and giving people permission to challenge in a constructive way. You had to do it with politeness and constructive suggestions. But anything that didn't feel right, people felt they had the permission to challenge. Now in a slightly different organization as well, that was a different one. Another one I saw, we had a leadership conference one week in a hotel like organizations do. But what we'd done was actually have a setup activity just outside the entrance doors where all the delegates would go in. So as they filed into the room, this setup was an actor, if you like it, unknown to the delegates. We paid and set him up to appear to work unsafely on a bit of hotel maintenance. What was interesting was two things. Firstly, how many people just walked by, you know, and allowed this character to carry on working, you know, because either they didn't notice or they didn't feel they could challenge. But what was really great was that were people who did have the courage. Even though, you know, he was a hotel worker ostensibly and nothing to do with them on the face of it, they still had the courage to challenge him and reinforce the point that actually it's all our responsibility to address unsafe practices wherever we see them, as long as we do it, you know, in the right way.
[00:28:09] Jackie De Burca: Now, going back to your clients, Davis, the likes of, you know, we've talked about jll, ng, Bailey, EPS Group and Costain, what are the themes that come into your mind when, you know, esg, health and safety are done well with the likes of those clients?
[00:28:23] David Picton: Yeah, it's a great point actually, because there's a recognition. I think one of the key themes for me is there's huge overlap in the data and the insights from each of those areas from health, safety, environment, ESG as well. And when you overlap that data and connect and integrate it together, you can really draw out some valuable trends and analysis and actions from that as well. And when you get it right, you can actually move from basic compliance, if you like, generating those insights through to more mature data mining and data exploitation. But you can even move onwards to predictability if you like. So using that data to anticipate issues before they happen as well, connecting data across all those sorts of areas. I think one of the other theme that consistently comes up for me. Absolutely. Is that people are at the heart of doing those things well, engaging them and involving them in embedding technology solutions in everyday activities, but learning from them and giving permission to feed back and question and develop it as well. And there's no doubt at all. I think we've all seen it. But it's very true that you need that commitment from the top all the way down through leadership levels to integrate these expectations into the way things are done day in, day out, even when times get tough. And let's be honest, you know, the construction sector is under cost pressure all the time. It's under time pressure as well. It's under expectation pressure. So even when times get tough, and that's probably when it's most important of all, that safety is still coming first.
[00:29:45] Jackie De Burca: Yeah. I mean, we are obviously in very, very challenging times for, you know, from so many perspectives, particularly for the construction industry. So, yeah, that does add, you know, a whole layer of complexity to. It doesn't. Yeah. So one or two lessons, David, from the case studies that you think every construction leader should hear.
[00:30:05] David Picton: Well, you know, Jackie, the one one is one of my favorites, really. I think one or two lessons would be that the ink is never dry.
You know, even once technology solutions are rolled out or systems are put in place, you've got to keep things under regular review, revisit them, update risk assessments, learn as the system evolves as well. So that ink is never dry. And for me, that's as equally true in safety as it is in sustainability. There's always something more you can do, you know, it's never done. And to be fair, no apologies for repeating that message. I think building these safety cultures and technology implementations by involving people, you know, and bringing them along with you, and as you've heard me say, giving them permission to challenge things in the right way that they don't think are right.
[00:30:45] Jackie De Burca: Perfect. Yeah. I mean, I think again, it's important to repeat that as many times as you like. And I love the phrase the ink is never dry, you know, Absolutely. Makes perfect sense and it really resonates. If a construction firm wants to make progress on just one of these issues, David, where should they start?
[00:31:02] David Picton: I think I would start with the end in mind.
So if they're going to make progress on these issues, what is it they want to achieve?
Why and how does that link to their core purpose? This is not a bolt on or an additional thing. This is integral to their Core purpose. So what value will it deliver for them? And that helps them, I think then to build the business case to start with and most importantly, how they'll measure success to know when they achieve the change they want. So it's that start with the end in mind thing and build the business case around it and, you know, making progress on one or two of the issues. Naturally, as you'd expect, I would say please get in touch with our experts here at Eco Online. You were doing this day in, day out with more than 11,000 customers of all shapes and sizes around the world. There'll be something we can do to help, even if that's just a chat, you know, with nothing more than that. Just a chat to begin with about what might be possible or what might be of use.
[00:31:54] Jackie De Burca: Okay. Okay. So, like, you know, I think most of our listeners would really, really like to know more about the, the website address. Davis, just for those who are listening only and may not look at the actual page.
[00:32:07] David Picton: Yeah, Indeed. Just, just ecoonline.com really, if you go looking for us.
Absolutely. If you go looking for us, you'll. You'll find us. Yeah, because we, it's a combination, like I was saying, really, I think there's a combination of areas that thought leadership examples. So go looking for ecoonline.com and, and you'll perfect grab all the information you could.
[00:32:28] Jackie De Burca: Fantastic. Okay. Now, finally, David, it's been a brilliant conversation. What do you feel gives you hope about the direction construction is heading in, particularly when it comes to safety and sustainability?
[00:32:39] David Picton: Yeah, thanks, Jackie. I think hope is indeed how I feel about it, really, having seen a lot of change over the last few years, if you like, that. It's several overlapping things, I think, that drive that hope. There is an increasing focus on training and safety cultures, including refresher training and development work as well. So training and safety cultures are coming very much to the fore now. There's no doubt that's backed up with accountability and regulation as well. So you're setting the right standards and holding companies accountable for safety compliance, if you like. And you know, we're seeing from some of the research you've done and from the evidence around that there's commitments to invest, commitments to invest, budgets for data connectivity integration. And like I said, I think before, that's driven by clear indications of strong business cases. So you've got that sustained investment momentum as it goes through time. But I also like the fact that there's customer expectation now, both in consumer sectors and in business sectors as well, that companies will invest in sustainable materials, they will follow responsible building practices, and these are the best ways to create assets and services and infrastructure of lasting value, particularly in terms of their net overall cost.
Finally, I think the cause for hope for me one sort of area, you've got new workers coming into the workforce who expects that environmental, health and safety systems will be joined up and connected. They expect they'll have the support and the permission to do the right thing and they want to have the technology to work safely and responsibly. So I think as that next generation comes through, they are the ones that will take us forward and teach us and drive this for the future.
[00:34:10] Jackie De Burca: I absolutely agree with you, David. It's such a brilliant point. And probably like they do when it comes to technology and sustainability, you know, they're probably to, going, going to be great leaders to those of us from our kind of era, if you like.
[00:34:23] David Picton: David, I learned a lot from my daughters on a daily basis.
[00:34:26] Jackie De Burca: Yes, absolutely. Listen, it's been such a pleasure and so much really valuable information. David, thank you so much. Thank you.
Courtesy of Ecoonline
