Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Hi, and welcome to Constructive Voices. My name's Steve Randall, and I'm joined, as always, by Pete the builder Peter Finn. Hi, Pete. How you doing, Steve?
[00:00:15] Speaker C: How are you?
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Good to yeah, very well, thank you. We've got another great guest today and sort of continuing on a theme that we've come back to time and time again, which is really enthusing people at a young age to get involved in the construction industry and all the sort of wider talents and skills that feed into that.
[00:00:34] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. We have a very good guest today, Melissa Ahmed, and Melissa has taken upon herself to basically introduce people into her favorite topic, which is Stem, which is science, technology, engineering and mathematics all mixed into one. Not only that, Melissa has also been very proactive and has set up her own company, Tech Woman. And her I suppose, mission statement is to be able to get out there and to spread the good word and to spread the idea of working in these industries to young people. And she travels around to schools and really, really interesting interview we have here and really looking forward to hearing this one again.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, well, let's have a listen and then we'll chat at the end.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Once again, delighted to be here. And in terms of my background, I am a principal sustainability Project Manager with a UK multidisciplinary consultancy and I work in the built environment. I've been a board trustee with the Women's Engineering Society previously, and I am also EDI Specialist Interest Group Chair for the Women's Engineering Society. And I do various other work as a Stem ambassador as well. And I'm a chartered environmentalist and founded Women in Sustainable construction property.
[00:01:53] Speaker D: My name is Melissa Ahmed. I'm managing Director of Tech Women. I'm also a Chartered engineer with the Imec and my background is in aeronautical and mechanical engineering and I'm a really big advocate for promoting diversity, Stem education and women in engineering.
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Brilliant. Thanks very much, Melissa, and I'm really looking forward to hearing further information about your background and just want to revert back to your earlier career and how you started.
Can you tell me what you studied and also what sort of Stem related subjects did you focus on?
[00:02:30] Speaker D: Yeah, of course. So I studied at Salford University and I did aeronautical engineering, but my career to get to that point wasn't really quite straightforward. I never really saw engineering as the career for me, and it wasn't really pushed when I was studying subjects like art, science and maths. Those subjects were always my passion from school all the way up to college. But I was always looking at different career pathways like medicine, going into maths, or even going into marketing and media. And it wasn't until I did lots of different work experience placements that I realized that engineering really was the career for me. And I discounted careers such as being a doctor, going and doing medicine, studying medicine, just after doing the work experience placements and realizing that it wasn't for me. So the work experience placements were really, really crucial for me to choose engineering.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really interesting to know that and for our audience as well, and the younger members of the audience, just in terms of what impact the work experience had on your career, really. And it sounds like you've got some international experience as well. Whether it's from your work experience. Could you tell us a bit more about that, if that's okay?
[00:03:52] Speaker D: Yeah, of course. When I was trying to decide what career would be best for me, my parents got me lots of different work experience placements abroad. I went to Sri Lanka and I was able to go into a hospital and do the ward round and speak to the patients, but also go down to watch surgeries that had been undergone. And that was really quite something special, to actually watch something happen. You read about lots of different things, but I'm the type of person that until I actually do it, I can understand whether I'd like it or not.
I was born in the Maldives, so it's really nice to go back there and do lots of different things there.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: And in terms of the base that you work from now, is that somewhere in the UK or are you working abroad?
[00:04:44] Speaker D: Yeah, we're based in the UK, so we've got an office in Manchester, but we do quite a lot of travelling. We travel on site, go and meet different clients, so we're definitely traveling a lot.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: And Melissa, you co founded an organization back in 2019, Tech Women, which is a great achievement and incredibly inspiring. Can you advise what prompted this, please?
[00:05:08] Speaker D: So, having such a passion in engineering myself, looking around and understanding that there are a lack of females in the engineering industry, but also other Stem based careers as well, this is a way to be able to promote Stem, but also to work on the engineering projects and continue the career I love. So it's a way of doing both, really. So Tech women is an engineering consultancy. We specialize in design engineering for physical security products used in the national infrastructure, the water, gas, electricity, et cetera, and the built environment on products such as cages, louvre, vents and window bars. Our design services range from 3D model creating, manufacturing packs and FEA analysis, all the way to redesigning products. But our company's mission is to empower women in engineering to improve gender parity in the industry.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: And do you work full time or do you have flexibility to do things around your day job?
[00:06:06] Speaker D: So we do work full time, but we have flexibility. So with my job, I could be working on lots of different things at one time. So one day I could be working in a school, delivering a stem activity day. The next day I could be on site, the next day I could be doing some project management. So it's quite varied from day to day.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: It sounds really diverse and interesting. Could you tell us a little bit more about this kind of Stem activities you might get involved with?
[00:06:36] Speaker D: Yeah, of course. So the Stem activity days are something that's quite close to my heart, and.
[00:06:41] Speaker E: So far we've delivered to over 3600 pupils, with ages ranging from four up to 16 years of age. These activity days run for a complete school day, with usually two to three practical activities for the pupils to participate in. These are hands on and are based around Stem subjects and concepts. We would also like to introduce real world job titles such as design engineers, manufacturing engineers, accountants and project managers. And the day is a competition with an overall winner and prizes for the winning team. I think these days are always so rewarding, and it's great seeing the children have so much fun and learn about the careers they can go into. I love that we can assess the impact of the Stem day before we leave. So at the start of the day, the children normally don't know what Stem stands for, but at the end of the day, all the children can tell you what Stem stands for. They can tell us the roles they enjoyed doing and the skills they were good at. And really all we're doing is planting a seed in the child's mind, showing that there are careers that they may not have considered. And it's particularly rewarding when some of the girls tell me that they want to be an engineer just like me. I also had a six year old get a T shirt after attending one of our Stem days that said, Forget Princess, I want to be a scientist. It's very easy to say that schools should do more, but knowing how much a teacher has to plan and the curriculum that they have to complete within a school year, I think it's really quite difficult for schools to sometimes do more to change perceptions by themselves, as they might not have the resource or the funding to do this. But I think it's more for the sector, like engineering companies to support schools. So we're in the industry, and who better than an engineer to explain to a child what the job is and how to get into that type of job? We're getting more and more requests from primary and secondary schools to come in and deliver our Stem activity days because not only are we going into more detail about Stem subjects and careers, we are actual role models for the children and real life examples of engineers, psychologists or nurses. And the fact that we all look different helps to banish the stereotype that you have to look or behave a certain way to be, for example, an engineer.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: So stem. For those that don't know. It stands for Science, Technology, Engineering and mathematics. Becoming an engineer, are there particular skills you think that are required by a younger person, someone in school or even college?
[00:09:26] Speaker D: Yeah. So a lot of the skills that would be required as an engineer, for example, are things that we promote in our Stem Activity Day. Things like problem solving, creativity, thinking outside the box, creating new ways for doing things and solving existing problems. For example, attention to detail, but also CPD, improving your skills, learning new ones. And most important thing is working as a team as well. So we're showing the children different types of skills that are needed for different jobs within the industry.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: That sounds really interesting. Do you ever do experiments, for example, or is it kind of like more of a work activity that you might do?
[00:10:10] Speaker D: So we typically do three activities throughout the day, all based on the class that the children are in. They're all very practical activities.
The children will be working as a team. So, for example, one of the activities is making a bridge made out of spaghetti. It's quite fun. There's a budget involved, so they're having to think about their math skills, making the cheapest bridge that's most economical, that kind of thing. It's quite fun as well. And when there's a competition involved in the Stem Activity Day, it's quite nice to see all the teams working together. We also have a reflection after every activity, so each team will go and present their work to them. It's not something that they do a lot in school, so it's good to learn those skills at an earlier stage, learn to praise other teams as well. So it's quite rounded for the whole day.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Definitely. I totally agree. Melissa, did you have any inspirational role model when you were growing up? Was anyone that inspired you or maybe inspires you currently at all?
[00:11:23] Speaker D: I always remember watching the film Hidden Figures. I don't know if you've watched it.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Yes, I have. Yes.
[00:11:30] Speaker D: And that is one of my favorite films to date because I watched it and I was just so inspired by especially Catherine Johnson and what she managed to achieve back in that. So that is she's one of the biggest role models for me.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: So I think, as far as I remember, Hidden Figures, so this was about black women that were employed by NASA and undertaking research. And they were employed very skilled and it was really sort of trailblazing, but there were challenges, I think, in terms of quality, diversity, inclusion. And this was highlighted within the film. So it's a really interesting film and one that I think that is definitely worth watching.
[00:12:15] Speaker E: Definitely.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Are you aware of any current statistics with regards to the rise of young girls or women in engineering in the UK? And how can schools or perhaps industries bring about change with regards to this?
[00:12:30] Speaker D: Women makes up 16.5% of engineers in the UK at this moment in time, which is a great figure. I think it was 10.5% in 2010. So having a 6% increase of women in the engineering workforce is brilliant. It was interesting to read that even though the number of people working in engineering fell during the COVID pandemic, we still had an increase in women in engineering roles.
So that was good to see.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah, that is really promising and good news to hear. Melissa, how have you found it in terms of being female in the field of engineering in a fairly male dominated industry?
[00:13:16] Speaker D: I think I continually look around and wonder why I'm unrepresented, because this really is a job for everyone who has the right skills.
I think sometimes I wish I had a role model in engineering when I was younger, but that's the reason why I'm looking to be that role model for other females. So I get messages and emails from females asking for advice about their career pathway, and I'm more than happy to help because sometimes it's always better to get advice from people who are in the industry.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: And do you have any further thoughts on what more could be done to attract young girls or women into industry and engineering as a field? I know you've covered quite a bit, but if there's anything else you could.
[00:14:03] Speaker D: Add I think the lack of role models in the industry is something that we need to work on and we are working on. Having role models is brilliant because you're breaking that stereotype associated with careers such as engineering.
For me. I was the first female employed in a company I worked at in the technical office. And bringing a female in, it helped change perceptions from the company's perspective. And after that, they've continued to employ females in the department. And it's kind of breaking that change and inspiring more women to get into engineering and really knowing what engineering is.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: Yes, definitely. I mean, I think there are some really interesting, inspiring female role models that have been emerging from certainly from the awards, the we 50 awards with the Women's Engineering Society, for example. And this sort of takes place every year, so it's a top 50 women in engineering. But I think, yes, certainly it's kind of promoting that to the industry and to the schools and making sure that there is that awareness. But, yeah, I totally agree in that sense. You're a member of the Women's Engineering Society, the EDI Specialist interest group, just like myself. What area of diversity and inclusion interests you and what difference would you like to see improved in the industry?
[00:15:35] Speaker D: Yeah, so I'm really interested in diversity, inclusion. I'd love to work more in trying to get people from the BAME more into engineering because I think there's only 10% in the UK at the moment. Also working on subjects, for example, like PPE. At this moment in time, PPE is typically designed for men. I know myself it's quite difficult to find PPE that fits me correctly. So with the Wes Specialist Group working on things like that to improve the industry, there are so many things that have been designed in the past not taken into account different types of people. For example, the Airbag originally designed just to stop men from getting harmed, but I think they found quite soon afterwards that women and children weren't able to be protected in the same way because it was designed not for everyone. So we need to take that into account sometimes when we design things in.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: A similar vein as well. Melissa, how do you hope that things will have changed for women in engineering, the built environment for the next few years?
[00:16:48] Speaker D: I think creating lots of different networking sessions to work together and have more of a network for females, so there is more of a presence to speak to different people. Also just trying to promote the careers, talk about the careers out there in the industry a bit more to get more people interested in that specific career itself and show that the diversity within engineering.
[00:17:14] Speaker E: As a company, we like to get involved in different networks and campaigns which share the same values and beliefs as ourselves. I was part of the Institute of Engineering and Technology's very first diversity campaign and part of their Celebrate Impacts exhibition, where 95 past and present engineers were selected for their contribution and work to promote and celebrate the engineering industry. Myself and Greg are also part of the SolidWorks Champions program, where members are selected based on their experience using the software, but also their impact in the industry. We are both certified SolidWorks professionals and have used the network to connect with like minded people in the design engineering field around the world, and this also allowed us to collaborate with SolidWorks themselves to deliver a design engineering focused Stem activity day to pupils throughout the UK. This allowed each student access to the software where we taught them design skills and allowed them to work on a complete design project. From inception to prototype, over 70% of the pupils were female and it was great showing the pupils different career options, especially because they had lost out on work experience due to the pandemic and had to decide on their subject choices for their GCSEs shortly after we attended school.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Melissa, it's been such a pleasure interviewing you and I just wondered if you had any final thoughts for other engineers joining the industry and maybe just some final thoughts on what you'd like to be doing the next five years or so.
[00:18:48] Speaker D: So in terms of final thoughts for people joining the industry, engineering is a career for all. You just have to find your skills to match the right career, really. Don't let the stereotypes put you off. Speak to people in the field as well. Companies such as Ourselves TechWomen, we're more than happy to help the next generation and provide advice.
[00:19:11] Speaker E: There is a shortage of engineers in the UK still, but there are more initiatives to improve this, such as changing the perception of engineering to improve diversity in the industry. But I think there needs to be more of an understanding of the opportunities available in engineering and the high level future earning potential which comes with a career in engineering. There was a decline in apprenticeships in around the 1970s which has contributed to the skills shortage and current courses might not actually be suitably covering all skills that are needed to secure an engineering job. I think currently 20% of the workforce will retire by 2026 and that's about approximately 80,000 people, leaving behind a huge wealth of skill and knowledge which needs to be passed on to the next generation. And this is only three years away and it'll be prudent to employ people to transfer their knowledge to. For this reason, there is more of a push for CPD and upskilling people in the industry. And I really believe that Stem education has the potential to address the UK engineering sector's longstanding skills shortage because this depends on the educational opportunities presented to young people and the choices that they.
[00:20:30] Speaker D: Make in the next five years. We're aiming to increase our Stem activity days, partner with different people and take it abroad. We've had the opportunity to partner with companies such as the RAF, which has been brilliant to take the Stem activities to the days to the next level.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Okay, that sounds really interesting and I just wondered if you had any further thoughts on mentoring as well. Have you got any experience of mentoring at all?
[00:20:58] Speaker D: So, I haven't been a mentee myself, but I have spent a lot of time mentoring in the past couple of years.
So we've had more than 30 different mentees from all around the world, not just the UK, we've had South Africa, we've had India, America. And it's great to be able to help people try and find the next step in their career, whether it's helping them with their CV, whether it's helping them get a job, prepare for an interview, or even just talk to about next steps, talking about becoming Chartered Engineer or an incorporated engineer or professionally developing themselves. That's something that we do which is voluntary and would love to help anyone that needs any help.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: That sounds absolutely fantastic. Melissa I think the audience would be really delighted to hear a bit more about the mentoring side of things and just wondered if it was six month period or less or maybe more like a year for the mentoring.
[00:22:05] Speaker D: So it starts off as a six month period? Yeah.
So, for example, one of my mentees, it started off as a six month period and I helped with a CV, helped look at different opportunities. And then she graduated from university, got a first class degree, she became a tech woman Stem Ambassador. So we have a Stem Ambassador program where we help with lots of different skills, really. So they become a tech women Stem Ambassador to help us deliver our Stem activity days. But we also help them with their communication skills, their presenting, and we support them when they come to a Stem activity day. We do pay them for their time so they get supported that way. And she went through all of that. She's done a couple of Stem activity days for us and she is actually working for a very big construction company at the moment and very proud of her. So it's nice to see people go from step A to step C in the couple of years that we work with them. She still keeps in touch.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: Now, I think that's really wonderful. It just sounds so rewarding. And thanks very much for the interview, Minister. This is constructive voices.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: So, Pete, we've had some amazing women on this series that has been focusing on women in the construction industry. And Emma Nicholson has been doing these great interviews there's. Melissa doing what needs to be done, frankly, to inspire young women, but young men as well, but young women in particular, to get involved in those Stem subjects, which often seem like it's not for them. But she's really kind of inspiring them to think, no, this is something I can do and should do, because this is something I'd love to do.
[00:23:54] Speaker C: Yeah, it was obviously a passion of her own and she excelled in that area. And then she went on to set up her own business and to go on and mentor people, which is fantastic. It's a great story to hear. And to me, when I hear these stories, it really gives me some faith and some great hope that there's just people all over the world from different backgrounds that are coming into our industry, and not only our industry as well. Obviously, science, technology, engineering and mathematics is what Stem stands for and that can diverse into an awful lot of different industries and different areas. But it is absolutely valid for our industry, the construction industry. And as we've often spoken about here, Steve, the construction industry is going down that route where we make decisions based on science. Technology is such a huge part of what we do. And then obviously, engineering and mathematics are an everyday part of our industry. So great to hear. And what I really, really enjoyed as well was the fact that Melissa is going and speaking to students in schools. And I remember myself when I was in school and we had visitors like that come into our school and the influence that that had over me when I would hear what people had to say about a certain industry or about their life experiences. And I think it's fantastic. And again, huge congrats to Melissa. And women in construction are really putting their fingerprint on our industry and long may it last, because we often speak about it here. Steve, we really do need more people in our industry. We need people from all different parts of the world, all different types of cultures, all different types of diversity in our industry. We need people to come and be attracted to the construction industry. This type of initiative really, really does help to make sure that our industry is put on the map and is put out there as a viable job opportunity and career for people going forward.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's important to have that pipeline of talent coming through, but also for the sort of wider societal piece. I mean, I was lucky enough at about twelve or 13 to know that I wanted to work in the media. My son has done the same. He knew at that sort of sort of age. And I mean, you did an apprenticeship when you left school and it's great when people do have that focus. And I think the younger you have that focus the better. And it absolutely breaks my heart when you get kind of even people kind of 1819 and they may be gone to university but still not really sure what they're going to be doing. And if you don't know that, it's really difficult to have a vision and have positivity and see yourself going forward in life. And that for young people is devastating.
[00:26:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I totally agree. And I firmly believe that to be able to stay in any job or to be able to stay active in any kind of a topic or a hobby or a career, you need to be interested in. I think initiatives like what Melissa has got going on there at least gives younger people the opportunity to hear about and to maybe try out a certain type of an education or a certain type of a career path which they may not have gone down without horror influence. So I totally agree. There's nothing worse than the hearing of anybody going to college or entering into a career simply because they just didn't know what else to do. That shouldn't be the way. Again, I was quite lucky in that I kind of always knew what I wanted to do from an early age and I'm lucky that I still do enjoy what I do. But it's not easy and the world is changing place and there's lots of different options out there for people. And people do feel that they want to try and make the right decision for themselves, but sometimes they just don't know what that decision, you know? Great to hear what Melissa and other women in the industry are doing there, getting the word out there and certainly giving people some good choices and lots of other stuff that she's doing as well, like her company, Tech Woman is very interesting as well. So I think well done, Melissa. And well done, Emma. On another great interview and yeah, lots more to come. Can't wait to hear more, Steve.
[00:27:52] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, have a great week and I'll talk to you next time.
[00:27:55] Speaker C: Cheers, mate. You too.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: And that's all for this episode of Constructive Voices. Please take a moment to share it with others who may find it interesting. Follow or subscribe to get the latest episodes automatically on your favorite podcast app and rate and review the podcast if you can. You can also listen to the latest episode by saying alexa, play Constructive Voices.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: Podcast here's Constructive Voices here's.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: The latest episode and on our website where there's lots more, more information too. That's constructivevoices.com. Don't forget the dash. Until next time. Thanks for listening. You're really helping us build something.
