Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: People with news, views and expert interviews.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: Hello, I'm Steve Randall, and welcome to Constructive Voices. This time, we're continuing our focus on females. Last time, we spoke to Joe Parker, who has decades of experience in the construction industry. This time, we're going to the other end of the spectrum and somebody who's just starting out in their construction industry career. I'm joined, of course, by Peter Finn. Pete the builder. It's another fascinating episode.
[00:00:32] Speaker D: Pete yeah, absolutely.
We have Ocean, and she's going to be interviewed today again by Emma and really, really interesting interview. Again, Ocean has left her homeland of Rwanda and traveled to fulfill her dream. And I used the word vocation when I was describing Joe at the end of her interview last week. And there's no doubt about it that Ocean is exactly the same. She has a drive and a spirit and a will to help people out. And she is doing that true construction and true her engineering aspect. So it's a really good interview again, and I find it really good. I love listening to people when they're starting off on a path and they have their focus and their dreams ahead of them and what drew them into the construction industry to start off with as well, because I'm a big advocate of people going into construction at all different levels, and I really do drive that. And again, it's fantastic to hear a young lady like Ocean and listening to how passionate she is about construction and about her career ahead.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think what's interesting with the interviews that we've heard recently, and I think we've heard this before on different interviews that we've done on Constructive Voices is people's motivations for getting into the industry. Often when you're talking about engineers in particular, there's always talk of maths and science. Those sort of things are really important to people, how structures can be put together, the angles that are needed, not just for structural purposes, but also to make them look beautiful. But also we're hearing a lot about that, as you say, the vocational side and the wanting to make the world better for people, making things that people will enjoy using, or just things that are functional that really make a big difference, save them time, save them struggles in their life. And I think that's a wonderful theme that we hear constantly on Constructive Voices.
[00:02:33] Speaker D: Yeah. And then added to that, obviously, Stephen, again, we always face up to this problem that we certainly do have a climate change battle going on. As you know, that's another huge element of construction at this point in time. And I think the younger generation and the new wave of professionals and just general construction people absolutely have that as one of their priorities. So you've got your general challenges of making sure that whatever it is that you're involved in or working on is functional, aesthetically. We want to make sure that it ticks the boxes and looks architectural and creates something new. But then also, we certainly want to make sure that's done in an environmentally friendly and sustainable way. So I think, again, Oceania's interview really captures all of those elements to it. So it really is great to hear this coming from a person who is new to the construction industry and who has a huge career ahead of them and the future is in safe hands when we have people like this involved. And it's really refreshing to hear. It really does show the steps that we are taking forward in the right direction in the construction industry. And long may it last.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Absolutely. Let's hand over then to Emma Nicholson, talking to Ocean about her career that's ahead of her and this is going to be great.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: I am a principal sustainability project manager. I work for a national consultancy in the built environment in the UK and I'm a chartered environmentalist. I've been working in the industry for about 25 years. I've also previously been a board trustee for the Women's Engineering Society. And I also chair the EDI specialist interest group for the Women's Engineering Society.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: My name is Osean Daguta. I've recently graduated from the University of Nottingham with a master's of Environmental Engineering. So I recently graduated and I'm looking into getting into a graduate environmental engineering scheme. I joined the Women's Engineering Society EDI interest group back in September 2022.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Thanks very much. Osian, I'm interested to know why did you want to study environmental engineering? What kind of drew you to this career route in the first place?
[00:04:53] Speaker A: So, when I was 17 in high school, I learned a lot about climate change and I took a class on what the United Nations Environmental Program is doing to help fight climate change. And I learned about the consequences of climate change and got very interested in what can I actually do to help? And I was doing extra modules outside of school to learn more about climate change. And at first I wanted to do environmental science to understand what is the cause and what are the consequences of climate change, to learn more about it. And I had one of my teachers who was a civil engineer, so he knew about how to solve problems and he was telling me, oh, there's another law of, like, women in engineering. I know you're interested in learning more about climate change, but maybe that's something you can consider. So I started looking into what engineering is about. I decided to do environmental engineering as I wanted to solve problems and help the world fight against climate change. So, yeah, learning about climate change and then having that desire of helping the world, building a better world, that's what drove me into environmental engineering.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Thank you, Sienna. I think that's incredibly important. It will lead to a most rewarding career. What aspects of the course did you really enjoy or found challenging.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: My course was interesting in terms of the department was chemical and environmental engineering. So the first two years were really focused on chemical engineering which is like process engineering and creating products and building processes and products.
And the last two years were more like environmental engineering which is what I was most interested in. So I got to learn about environmental impact assessment, how to do ground investigations and how to write reports on site investigations and understanding what are different criteria on how to make an environmental impact assessment report, which consists of looking at water quality. What are the consequence of a building can have on air pollution, on the noise, to the people on the ground, on the waste management, et cetera? So I got really interested in environmental impact assessment and that is what I want to do as an environmental engineer. What else I got interested in the course was I was really interested in working in labs and having to challenge myself and solve problems. So my last year my research project was on investigating how to remove heavy metals which contaminate the environment from incinerator buttermash, which can be used as concrete material for roads, for example. So I really got interested in doing research and having to help protect the environment, so making sure that the materials that we are using are safe for the environment. So I felt like as an engineer I enjoyed doing something which is impactful for the environment and also safe for the people.
And I've also on my course really enjoyed working in groups and getting to know people from different cultures and different backgrounds.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: I'm sure that as well that you're having to look at innovative ways.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: To.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Make improvements to develop environmental solutions and particularly with regards to materials, maybe even working with suppliers, driving innovation. So I just wondered if there was anything innovative that you particularly learnt on your course or that you focused on.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: On my course, I've really enjoyed learning about carbon capture. So how can we design a process which captures the carbon and having to make sure that we are using safe material that is long term sustainable and that we don't need more retrofitting later on. And also how can we retrofit, how can we add a carbon capture plant to an old plant?
And also in terms of energy efficiency, making sure that we use material that is of low carbon footprint and that uses low energy. And having also to recycle material on the plant itself. So for example, like recycling steam or like recycling wastewater, having to treat it, then reuse it on the plant in terms of materials.
So as a chemical environmental engineering, it's more about making sure that the material that we're using is safe for the product that we are producing. I'm not a civil engineer but I know I've read about using bamboo, for example, as a material which is sustainable, but in terms of an environmental engineer. I know that we need to use material that is safe and also environmental friendly, which has a low carbon footprint. So doing things like lifecycle assessment studies, that is something I've also enjoyed doing on my course, making sure that we know the carbon footprint of the material that we're using.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: It sounds like you've developed a lot of knowledge and skills on your course. Are there any particular skills that you think have helped you initially before you started the course or that you think are important to becoming an engineer?
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Yes, I think teamworking is the first one I'll say on my degree. The projects that we've done are always held of a group of six, five people. And so, yeah, you need to be able to trust the other people you're working with and distribute the task equally so you don't get a lot of work by yourself. And just having to see something come to the end altogether and think that it has worked and working with everyone else, it's a really important skill. So I'll say teamworking is the most important. And also like communication, being able to say when you are not confident with something or when you need help. And that also comes with teamworking and making sure that you're able to explain what you've learned, explain what you're finding so that your colleagues can also trust you. So communications are very important and also problem solving skills. As engineers, we are trying to solve problems, so we need to make sure we work on things together.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: I agree. I think those are three really important skills that's teamwork, communication and also problem solving skills. Oceanne in terms of sustainability, how do you think engineers can make a difference?
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Engineers can make a lot. So our job is to design and protect the environment and protect the people. So what we can do is, for example, in terms of water treatment, making sure that we are recycling the water that we're using on a plant or anywhere in the process of building something. So making sure that we recycle the water. And also in terms of steam, for example, where can we reuse the steam on the process? Plant sustainability in terms of also the material that we're using, a material which is of low carbon footprint. Material that is also cheap because that also comes into sustainability. You just don't want something which you want something safe for the environment, but also how sustainable is it in terms of cost. And also designing buildings that are resilient to climate impact. So we know that we'll have drought or we can also have extreme floodings, for example, or rising sea levels. So making sure that the buildings that we are or the plant that we are building are sustainable in terms of like we don't need any retrofitting later on and they are safe for the people and also for the environment and things like also in sustainability in terms of improving the air quality and the health of the people, the biodiversity. So, for example, putting rain roofs on like buildings, so making sure that we reduce air pollution in that way. I would like to see a world where biodiversity is, we can see it's protected and the buildings that we are constructing today and in the future are really promoting biodiversity. So, as I said before, having rain roads, for example, and having areas near buildings where people will be able to live and children playing. And you'll have also a critic areas like a place where you see that you have the buildings, but also nearby you also have a range of biodiversity and most like a perfect world, I would say there's no pollution. With the carbon capture we've put and that we have more like a community which is really focused on making sustainability and making sure that the future generations are protected and have the same chances that we have today. So, yes, in terms of sustainability, I believe engineers, we can make a lot and there's still a lot of things that we need to change, but I believe that we are getting there. And also in terms of renewable energies, like putting solar panels on buildings, that's also something as engineers, we are able to do. So I want to be able to get an understanding of different sectors of the environmental growth area and then become an environmental manager in a few years. So in ten years time, yeah, I hope that will be towards achieving net zero by 2050 and I hope to see a big change in terms of politics and the fundings which are given to projects. So, yeah, I would like to see a society which is very committed into sustainability and helping fight climate change and I hope to be able to contribute myself as an environmental manager in the future.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: I just have a question now about how you think female engineers champion sustainability in the built environment and what your ideas are about this.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Yes, so just as male, I believe female can also build, can do anything and get into the build environment area. Doing things like having that group of climate change emergency for women or having groups of women who empower each other is very important. Female engineers, just like as male, we can do anything and we can build as well.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Do you have any views on what can be done to attract women into the industry and engineering as a field?
[00:15:05] Speaker A: I think already these things like making like a podcast like this where female engineers and young females can listen on what other engineers have female engineers have done in the past, it's a really good thing. So holding as well, like conferences where young female students can come and listen to other engineers is something which can be done. And I know that the Women Engineering Society, like the conference, the Women Engineering conference is something which is also very important, and it's like an example to follow. And also going into classrooms and talking to the students and telling them what us as female engineers, we've done in the past. And having that inspiration, giving them that inspiration, is something which is important. Great.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Thanks, ASEAN. So this leads me to my next question. Is there any one particular male or female in the engineering industry that's inspired you, and what was it about them that actually impressed you?
[00:16:06] Speaker A: I'll say as a male engineer, I've been impressed by one person at school who has really helped me as a young female engineer in terms of my career or even getting into the Women Engineering Society. So this person is called Vince Pizzoni, and he's like a career mentor at the University of Nottingham, and he's also part of the Women Engineering Society. And just seeing someone who's dedicated on not only helping all the engineers and all the young people in terms of their careers, but he's really also focused on empowering women. And this is something which really inspired me in terms of not a lot of men will go all the way to help women in their career and want to see female engineers prosper in their career. And it's something he's really done well and which is really inspiring. Yes, he's someone who has really helped me throughout my degree and who has really inspired me. And for myself, I want to be able to help young women in the future. And, yeah, I learn a lot from him.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: I think we could do with a lot more male mentors in the industry. And it's really great to hear that you've had someone such as Vince who has inspired you in that way. You're a member of the Women's Engineering Society EDI specialist interest group like myself. OCN what areas of diversity, inclusion, interest you? Is the first part of my question. And then I'll ask you another question, which is the difference that you would like to see improved in an industry with regards to diversity and inclusion, saying.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: That we are able to help more women get into the engineering sectors. So as like, the Engineering UK recent data, about only between 14 and 15% of women are female engineers in the UK. And this is a number I would like to see rising, just in terms of more women getting into boards and committees and also getting more jobs, engineering jobs. And personally, I would like as well to seeing more minority people getting into graduate jobs. I'm a person of minority, and so seeing more black, Asian and minority people getting more jobs is something which is important to me.
And also people who are more, like, disabled as well, getting more graduate jobs and getting the access to board committees, it's something I would really like to see. They can do the degree, the engineering degree, but then getting into the job, they get demotivated because they've gone through they've seen that it's hard and there's still, like, biases and yeah, they need to have self confidence, and that's something I would like to be able to help and see more women getting the confidence, going into enduring jobs.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Indeed. And also into leadership roles as well within organizations I think is really important too. So I think those are really good points. So, Tian, what inspires you the most in your future line of work? What you think you might want to go on to do? I think you've kind of touched upon it in terms of, are you going to do international work? Are you going to work in the UK?
[00:19:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to become a chartered environmental engineer and also a chartered environmentalist with Aima, the institution environmental management authority, I believe. So I want to become both a chartered engineer with Ikeme, but also be chartered with Aima. And in terms of what inspires me for my future work is I want to be able to build things which are sustainable, which protects the environment, but also is safe for the people. And yeah, I'm inspired on building things and seeing the future of that, like prospering and actually seeing the building come to life or the plant come to.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Life, definitely as well. You touched upon an institute. The Institute environmental Management and Assessment aima. And I'm also a member of AEMA. I just wondered how an institute can make a difference to your career. Are you a student level at the moment or are you planning on to kind of build your career with AEMA's support, for example?
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Yes. So I'm a current student member of Aima and I believe as an institute, there's things like you can follow trainings, you can have mentors. So once I join a graduate scheme, I'll be able to if I choose the path of Aima, I can get mentors who help me get through the process of being chartered. So being part of an institution is something I really recommend, even for young females who will be joining universities. So I joined, for example, Ikemi when I joined the University of Nottingham. So they'll have webinars, so those are things you can join after school. And I get to learn from people in the industry who have successfully completed some projects and who are able to share not only just project, even inspiration on how they got into their current jobs. And this is something I really recommend. And yeah, being part of an institution, just feel like you can learn from other people and you can ask them questions that will help you through your professional development.
So I believe being chartered is something which is very important. So to all the young female engineers who are listening to this, believe in yourself and be self confident. You can do anything that you want and anything that you set yourself to achieve, and you have people around you to help you through it and reach out to people. Never be afraid of asking questions.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Great. I totally agree with that as well. Osianne finally, is there a motivational quote that you'd like to leave with us for future female engineers joining the industry?
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Yes, I've actually got two quotes that I remember. So one is from May Jemison, who's the first African American women astronaut in space. So she said, don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, creativity, or curiosity. It's your place in the world, it's your life. Go on and do all you can with it and make it in the life you want to live. So I like this, that one, because in life, you'll get people who will not support you all the time into what you want to do. But as a female engineer and as a young engineer, you should believe in yourself all the time, and don't let anyone take that imagination and creativity of yours. You can change the world. And my second one is, we must have perseverance and above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something and that things must be attained. That's from Mary Carey.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Thank you so much, OtiAN. It's been an absolute pleasure to interview you.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: This is constructive voices.
[00:23:07] Speaker C: So, Pete, another fascinating interview. Somebody with their whole career ahead of them. And you do sort of know with the ideas that she's got, with the motivation that she has and the things that are driving her to want to be in construction and make the world a better place. She's got an amazing career ahead of her.
[00:23:26] Speaker D: Yeah. Without the shadow of a doubt. The world has definitely got smaller in a lot of ways. In terms know, you hear ocean talking and she comes from a place very far away from where she is currently working, but she's willing to make those commitments and those changes in her life to do what she wants to do. And it's clear that she wants to have an impact in a positive way. And she's doing that through something that she also has a huge passion for, which is construction. So, fantastic stuff. I really do get a kick out of hearing from young people with that drive, and it really does give you a little snapshot into the future. And it's great to hear and get to understand that young generation mentality as well.
[00:24:12] Speaker C: From your perspective, sort of on a boots on the ground level, do you find that there is a strong pipeline of young people, men and boys and girls, men and women wanting to get into construction? Are they contacting you? I mean, you in particular because you're on TV in Ireland. You're a very visible face of construction. Do you get people saying, this is something I want to get into. How can I do it? What's the next step?
[00:24:38] Speaker D: Yeah, I do. And again, I've made no secret of the fact that I really do feel we need to have a huge more amount of input in from female voices and female professionals and female trades people.
I have an apprentice, Jane, that is working with me now. She's just coming to the end of her fourth year and she's doing really well and absolutely loves being involved. She's learning her trade as a carpenter and joiner and she has really excelled. Every apprentice is slightly different but her approach and her attention to detail is something that is certainly different from what I've seen from a lot of the lads that I would have put through. There's quite a few females that I'm working with on a couple of projects that I'm on at the moment. So there's certainly a change in that direction. Again. It's not where it needs to be. And the numbers are slowly starting to change in terms of the percentage difference. But we still have a long way to go and there's no doubt about it, though the industry itself is without the shadow, without conscious of this now. And it's a question that I do get asked quite a lot. And it's a career choice that females are considering now and we need more of it. And again, if there was ever an interview that would help guide a female or a lady towards our industry, it's what we've just listened to there from Ocean in terms of it's very clear that she has made the choice based off her passions and is committed to what she's going to be doing going forward. And she has some great plans for the future. So, yeah, really exciting times for everybody within the industry, especially females. And I really do hope that we're going to start seeing lots more female participation in our industry on all aspects of the industry. Because our industry is so big, there's so many different areas within the industry in terms of it goes right from boots on the ground like myself to management level and technology. There's just so many facets to construction that again, ourselves here at Constructive Voices are regularly highlighting and are regularly talking about. So any females listening, please be inspired by what you've heard today and please consider our industry as a positive step forward and do what you can to help us within our industry and then obviously that in Torn can help change the tide in this climate change battle and help our industry do the right thing going forward. Yeah.
[00:27:01] Speaker C: And I think that's really interesting to hear, that at the level of apprenticeships in carpentry and things like that, there are young women coming through because some of the guests that we've spoken to recently, they're working on big infrastructure projects. They're engineers, and they've excelled, perhaps at school in maths and science. And that could be off putting for some who love construction but think the maths and the science, that's not for me. But actually, at all levels, there are roles. And if you're attracted to the business side, as you mentioned, there are management roles. We need men and women. We need all the different talents in these roles to give us the real perspective, the 360 perspective that we need for the world that we have.
[00:27:47] Speaker D: Yeah, without a shadow of a doubt. Look, our industry is thriving in terms of there's so much demand in so many different areas, whether it's residential infrastructure, and obviously, technology is changing all the time. And also the way we live is also changing. So we need full perspective and we need full boy in from everybody on board. And those barriers that were there over the generations are slowly being broken down and the quicker they get broken down, the better and it's a viable career choice. Construction is definitely a place where you can enjoy your career and also make good money as well. So let's not rule that out as well. There's lots of financial and economic opportunities here for people, no matter what their gender and what their situation. So, yeah, lots of exciting times ahead and lots more really good interviews ahead as well. And we're going to continue our team as well with females in construction. I'm looking forward to hearing more of those stories and much more stories that we have from within the industry itself as well.
[00:28:47] Speaker C: Pete, we'll talk again next time.
[00:28:48] Speaker D: Good stuff, Steve. Chat you soon.
[00:28:50] Speaker C: And that's all for this episode of Constructive Voices. Please take a moment to share it with others who may find it interesting. Follow or subscribe to get the latest episodes automatically on your favourite podcast app and rate and review the podcast if you can. You can also listen to the latest episode by saying Alexa play Constructive Voices.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: Podcast here's Constructive Voices here's the latest.
[00:29:11] Speaker C: Episode and on our website where there's lots more information too. That's constructivevoices.com. Don't forget the dash. Until next time. Thanks for listening. You're really helping us build something.
