Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Hi and welcome to the first episode of constructive voices for July 2021. I'm Steve Randall. We've got a fascinating chat coming up about Coventry. It's been awarded City of culture status for 2021. We'll find out what difference that makes to the city, its people and the construction industry.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Constructive Voices brought to you by Lewis Access British made scaffold towers and Access products.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: So as usual, our jobbing builder, our man on the ground, Peter Finn is with me. Hi, Pete.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: Hey, Steve. How are you?
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah, good, thanks. Is it hot enough for you?
[00:00:45] Speaker D: Too hot.
[00:00:47] Speaker C: Well, I'm a fiery Irish redhead, so just nicely warm over here in Ireland. Now. We're not quite hitting the heat of other countries, but yet no happy. The sun is, is usually shining, but in Ireland you can never tell. We have kind of, you know, we try and take advantage of that opportunity and maybe get some works done that suits that time of the year. But then you also have lads going on holiday, so it can be sometimes a little bit of a, of a mixed period. You know, kids are off school, the traffic is much lighter, so that's, that's all good as well. So, you know, everybody loves the summer. Everyone has a little bit of a, an extra spring in their step when the sun is shining and there's a little bit more free time.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Well, look, we're going to have a longer chat after we've heard our feature interview for this episode because I know it's something that you're really excited about and this is Coventry being the city of culture for 2021. And you've got a lot to say on how things like that, being awarded those accolades can really ignite the passion in a city, but also the construction industry around there.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. It's one of those kind of unique moments in, in the lifetime or the history of a city and sometimes even a country where they kind of get to go to center stage, kind of get a profile that they probably wouldn't have had previously due to the fact that they've been awarded an opportunity like Coventry being awarded the, the City of culture for 2021. And I know Shanin, who was the director of operations there, has got some brilliant stories on how it, it has helped Coventry and it's kind of regenerated in a lot of ways. And I suppose, look, you know, there's so many other examples of that that have happened throughout the, throughout history and in so many different countries. Like if you get to Host one of the big maybe football events, the Olympics, the Spartan occasion. So those, they're the type of things that I really think generate great positivity within a country. But you know what, it also generates great opportunity for construction as well. So we're going to dig down a little bit deeper on that, Steve, like we always do, me and you.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Great. Well, we'll talk more, Pete, after we hear that interview with Shaneen from the of Culture Trust in Coventry, talking to constructive voices.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: Henry MacDonald, constructive voices, the podcast for the construction people.
[00:02:54] Speaker D: Hi there. I'm Shaneen Bethena. I'm the creative director for the Coventry City of Culture Trust, set up to deliver Coventry City of culture in 2021. And I joined the trust in 2018 to lead the creative artistic vision for the program. And previously I worked for the Mayor of London leading on culture and place making.
[00:03:18] Speaker E: What are the big building projects that are an integral part of City of Culture 21 in Coventry?
[00:03:23] Speaker D: There are a number of aspects in terms of the kind of, I suppose, the Capitol buildings and the big kind of projects in the city.
There are a number of elements, really. So I suppose first of all, when you win the title of City of Culture, it's a chance for massive regeneration and redevelopment of the city. And so it's meant that the city has been prioritized for investment. Obviously, we've had to bid and pitch for that investment, so we got something like 42 million pounds towards transforming the public realm across the city. So over the last three to four years, a huge amount of investment has gone into the infrastructure of the city centre, the pavements, the roads, the street furniture, lighting schemes. And the most exciting thing, I suppose for me is that we have had a team of curators who have been sitting inside the regeneration team at the City Council, working with architects, with designers, with construction teams to really make sure that art is at the heart of that program right from the beginning. So thinking about, you know, if we want to create a new children's playground in the program, how can we bring artists in to support that? So that's kind of one area, the kind of the public realm of the city. There's been a huge investment in cultural buildings, so lots of investment from heritage funds as well as Arts Council and DCMS funding towards, I suppose, upgrading some of the venues that exist. So the Herbert Gallery and Museum, the Belgrade Theatre, Warwick Arts Centre have all undergone huge construction programs again over the last three to four years to make sure that they're kind of, I suppose, capitalizing on this moment in time. And making them fantastic places to visit for local people, but also visitors to the city. And alongside that, there's some new cultural buildings that are appearing. So there's the new Daimler powerhouse that's being built in the Canal Basin, which used to be the Daimler factory in the car industry, and it's now a fantastic factory for art. And that's had a huge investment, which, you know, has been through a number of kind of growth funds from across the city. And so a big construction program and had a softer opening back in May, but will be opened officially in August. And then, I suppose there's been a lot of investment in the city in big projects like hotels, for example. So there's a number of new hotels opening. The Telegraph Hotel opened in May, that used to be the headquarters of the Evening Telegraph, which is the local newspaper. And it's sat empty for 20 or 30 years now. And so it was a chance to really kind of redevelop that, turn it into a fantastic boutique hotel and other hotels popping up, up around the city as well. So we've seen a huge amount of investment across the city. Probably the biggest project is the new train station costing, I think, in the region of 100 or 150 million pounds. And it's been a massive project that's been underway now for two or three years and due to open later this summer. But really something that's been absolutely desperately needed for the city to really welcome people in and to show that we're this amazing, dynamic, youthful, diversity, pioneering and a great place to live, work and visit.
[00:06:52] Speaker E: So going to kind of fool two questions into one here. It's obviously boosted construction. I mean, have you got any sort of data or any kind of read on the jobs it's generated?
[00:07:04] Speaker D: I don't have those figures to hand, but I know that it's created a huge amount of work in the city. I mean, one of the reasons for being a city of culture is to kind of bring that investment into the city and those opportunities and to create work for people in the city, not just for the existing workforce, but also for young people through apprenticeships. And I know a huge amount of that work has been happening through the City Council, in partnership with private development companies, but also across the third sector who work very closely in partnership with the City Council, delivering housing and other elements of the infrastructure development for the city. City. It's been really extraordinary and I think it sets us in a really good place in terms of how we come out of the city of culture and what the Future feels like because as we're emerging, we're seeing a city that's really been transformed. And I suppose what I would say is I think the transformation of the city is very much in line with Donald Gibson's master plan for the city back in the 50s, after World War II. And hopefully people in the city have really embraced that change and really feel included in that change as well.
[00:08:20] Speaker E: You mentioned Donald Gibson and it kind of preempts my next question, which is, is city of culture and all its impact the biggest thing to happen to Coventry since the new cathedral was built under post war reconstruction?
[00:08:32] Speaker D: Absolutely. I mean, obviously the city was totally razed to the ground after the blitz of World War II and underwent a massive redevelopment, reconstruction, regeneration.
So many of the buildings had to be removed and many rebuilt. Some of them, you know, rebuilt brick by brick using the bricks from the rubble, others absolutely brand new. And some of them left there as a mark of peace and reconciliation and to show how the city responds to crises, I suppose. The Phoenix city rising from the ashes. And this is definitely the next moment in the history of the city. We're creating the new history, if you like. We're looking to the future. We're really using this as a moment, I suppose, 70 years on to really think about, you know, who we are now, how the city operates now, who lives here, who works here, what's the industry of the place, what is the role of culture and creativity in the place as well? How are we embracing our digital future, our green future? How are we thinking about heritage and not just the built heritage, but the natural heritage of our city, so that we're really connecting citizens with the city that they live in. So absolutely, it's an enormous project and I think by the end of it we'll have seen hundreds of millions of pounds invested in the city and a city fit for purpose, for the future that we face.
[00:10:05] Speaker E: In terms of architecture and design, in terms of buildings, you have mentioned the railway station. Is there any other projects that come to mind that stand out for you?
[00:10:12] Speaker D: I mean, there's a huge amount of building going on and some amazing art architects coming into the city. I think the most interesting development is the way in which builders, construction teams, designers are responding to the place and the identity of Coventry and the identity of the buildings or the spaces that they're working in. And I think the Coventry Evening Telegraph Hotel is an extraordinary example of how you can really respond to the history of a building, but create something really modern, new, exciting, clean lines, very future facing, but really that resonates and tells the story of Coventry. So I think that's probably if I was to choose one of so many amazing projects that are going on, it's a really great one and one I think that will stand the test of time and will be a project that designers and architects will come and study in years to come. I also think putting curators, artistic curators, into a city council regeneration team, I think that's a first. I don't think that's happened before. So to actually look at the impact that has had on the look and feel of the city and the way in which people will experience the city is so vital. I think it's really increased the ambition of our city council and their regeneration vision. It's made them bolder, it's given them more courage to try different things and to work in a new way. I think the other thing I would say is, and we haven't seen it yet, but we'll see it in the future, is that a huge way in which we're working is with our communities. So everything we're doing is co created and co designed and co imagined with communities in the city. And I hope in the future, with big projects to come, that construction teams, developers, companies coming into cities like ours will really understand the value of that because we've worked in such a different way. And I think people want to see change happening, but they also want that change to reflect the city. I think people are fed up of generic building programs that make every city the same and they want to see the identity of our cities coming through more strongly and the role of artists, creatives and our cultural lives represented in those cities in a bigger, better way. So I hope that that will really come through the program of building that you see in the future. The other thing I would say is we're working really closely with the Business Improvement district and so we've been working with them and the Royal Institute of British Architects to really think about shop windows and how we can work with the local retail sector, to reimagine our shop windows in a different way, bringing artists and creatives in to tell the stories of what's going in in those buildings and those spaces in those shops, but to really kind of engage in a new way in terms of how we tell stories and to engage audiences and citizens and shoppers in a different way. We've also got a fantastic project in partnership with the British Council Architectural Exchan program, where we're inviting architects into the city from all over the world to work with community groups to really interrogate future design of cities and how we really think about design and society and how. And what that urban challenge is going to be in the future. It's a program called Prototype City that's going to be really interesting as we move forward to see the outcome of that and the way in which it might influence how we collaborate better in the future to make our cities more inclusive of all of our people and to think about the very different needs that communities have from their cities.
[00:14:16] Speaker E: Do you think in terms of desire not to have homogenous cities, cities that all look the same in a kind of post industrial regenerative way that the construction industry and all its forms that you're working with in City of Culture and beyond, do they get it? Do they get what your vision is?
[00:14:35] Speaker D: Slowly we're getting there, but I think, you know, it has to be a collaboration and it needs courage because I think there's probably a concern that if you work in a different way, it's going to take longer, it's going to cost more money, it's going to slow everything down. But actually, my feeling is that we can still work to budget, we can still deliver on the aspirations of the cities, of the construction teams and the developers that are leading those projects, but we can do it in a more imaginative, more creative, more playful way.
And what's really interesting to me is the way in which then that defines cities differently and reduces that homogeneity. Because I think we've gone through that. We know that that doesn't work and that, you know, okay, it's nice. It kind of, you know, we regenerate cities and they feel a bit safer maybe, or cleaner or brighter, but they lose their identity a little bit each time. And this is a time, I suppose, for us to come together and really think about how we might do things differently. And I think what we've done is created some case studies that we can then share with the industry to think differently about how we work as we move forward. I think there's more work to be done with universities, you know, training the designers and the architects of the future, the construction leaders, to help them understand that process, that commission process, that collaborative process better so that they feel more comfortable and that it's not so scary. And actually it can be really a really amazing kind of creative collaboration. You know, we're all creative, we're all trying to do something extraordinary in our cities. I think we all want to leave a great mark and I think we're going, I hope that we're going back to a world where craft culture and the kind of creative imprints that we can leave in cities is something people want to engage with again. You know, we've seen these things in cycles and I think, I hope that we're getting back to that point again where, you know, leaving that mark on a city is embraced by everybody.
[00:16:48] Speaker E: Now, you mentioned universities and of course, Coventry University. I know for a fact, because I've got two friends who teach there and they say there's also a massive building program going on there in conjunction with City of Culture projects.
[00:17:01] Speaker D: Yeah, there's a huge amount of building that Coventry University have been doing all over the city.
Lots of work building, you know, new student accommodation. They've also been developing new facilities, new buildings for their different or for the different faculties. So there's a big new arts and humanities faculty that's going to be built in the coming years. They've also just transformed an area of the campus with a beautiful kind of open space, a beautiful new green environment called Starley Gardens. And really thinking about how you put kind of nature and kind of a. Kind of a green footprint back into a city center rather than just creating buildings. And we're starting to see that across the country, I think, where we're trying to re. Engage with nature again, trying to think more about the wild city and how we reintroduce nature in all its shapes and sizes, whether that's, you know, the natural world of insects and bugs or whether that's green spaces, whether it's revealing blue spaces. We're also trying to look, with the city council and developers in the city to reveal the river that goes underneath our city.
So lots of building going on. And the city, the university, are doing some incredible work. They've also done a fantastic partnership with us where they flattened a whole area in the city center ready to be built on in future years. And we're actually using it as our festival gardens in the coming summer. So we'll be creating this incredible oasis in the middle of the city, which will have entertainment, a place to hang out. And we've done that in collaboration with the university. So lots of great partnership going on and hopefully that will inform the way in which people want to use the city in years to come.
[00:18:52] Speaker E: Now, in a previous podcast, we talked to an expert on Merseyside's regeneration. Of course, they had a city of culture experience not so long ago either. And we talked about the impact of a new soccer stadium right on the. On the Mersey waterfront there at Bramley Murtoch, Everton's new home. What about Coventry City? Are they playing their part? I mean, I think they have a new stadium. What's the scenario there?
[00:19:16] Speaker D: Yeah, so Coventry City Football Club, they, they've actually been playing in Birmingham for the last couple of years due to a few issues that they had been experiencing at the Ricoh Stadium, which is also the home of the Wasps rugby team. But in recent months they've actually announced a that they're going to be coming back to play at the Rico stadium, which is really great news. But also they're in discussion with Warwick University to build a new football stadium in the south of the city. So that's really exciting as a kind of mid to long term project that they'll see a new home being built in the city and again more construction. A great legacy of being City of Culture but also of being the European capital of Sport. Back in 2019, obviously we have to.
[00:20:05] Speaker E: Talk about COVID and the lockdown and all that. We can't escape it. In terms of City of Culture and all that it implies, how have you got round that? And obviously we may be into lockdown liberation soon. But even prior to that, in what imaginative ways did you get around the restrictions we obviously had on all aspects of life?
[00:20:27] Speaker D: Yeah, it's been incredibly challenging and difficult. You know, apart from anything, all of my team and there's over 100 of us working on City of Culture, we're all working remotely from our houses or our apartments or our flats and that brings with it its own challenges. But of course we always said that we wanted to put the citizens and communities of Coventry right at the centre of our program. And so throughout the pandemic and for the few years before as well, we've been really working closely on the ground with lots of different communities in the city, working with community centres and libraries and the local business community, with schools, with faith groups to really kind of make sure that they're working closely with us to imagine the program and think about what our year ahead is going to hold. But it has been challenging. I think one of the biggest opportunities that has revealed itself to us through this time is the fantastic partnership we've been able to build with broadcasters. So we've got a great working relationship with the BBC. And actually when we opened our big event, Coventry moves on 5 June, it took place across the city. But of course we weren't allowed to advertise it to people in the city because of the fear of people gathering. And so actually we encouraged Everybody to watch it through our different broadcast channels, so online, through the radio, on TV and through social media. And it was a great success. We got a huge amount of coverage. Hundreds of thousands of people viewed what we were doing on the day and we were able to do some live streaming. We pre filmed some elements of it obviously on the day. People were bumping into it in and around the city because it was live on the day.
But it was the first, I suppose it was the UK's first major event since before the pandemic began.
And actually I think we managed to deliver an event, probably the only event of its kind, which really took on board all of the restrictions around the COVID pandemic, working very closely with our Director of Public Health to make sure we could deliver it safely. And it was a massive effort which, you know, we work very closely with the transport team at the City Council and the highways team. We worked really closely with, you know, construction companies in the city, making sure that, you know, that we weren't treading on their toes and that they were giving us the spaces that we needed so that we weren't kind of halting what they were up to, but also making sure we could get on with what we needed. And we live streamed, as I say, and we had over 100,000 views just on the live stream. And then on the BBC, they've now got a whole Coventry 2021 shelf and also a Coventry City of Culture page where they're actually uploading lots of the content that we created from that day. It was a great day and I think it demonstrates our resilience and the way that we've had to think differently and creatively about everything that we're doing. And now we've announced lots events, there's lots of big events coming. We just announced Terry hall who's going to be doing a curating a big four day music event at the end of July. We're opening our big festival Gardens, as I mentioned before, which is opening next week and we've put hundreds of thousands of tickets on sale. But I think for us now it's convincing people that, you know, we are planning all of these events safely, that they're going to be able to come and enjoy them and not be worrying about anything because everything that we're doing has to really, you know, deliver in so many ways and the health and safety is utmost paramount to us. So we'll just have to keep following the government guidance and the roadmap and hope that, you know, as more people are vaccinated it will be easier for people to come along and enjoy what we're doing. And then I suppose the other thing just to mention is, of course, a lot of our events are outdoors. You know, we're putting on events all over the city. The city, we're calling the city our stage. So whether it's down by the canal or the river or in parks and public spaces, our events will take place all over the city and hopefully on people's doorsteps. So it's easy for them to engage with it.
[00:24:51] Speaker E: And in terms of a message, too, because lots of other cities will get city of culture sometime. The message to the people we talk to in the construction industry, from big to small, what is the lesson you think they've learned engaging with people like you who are driving this project?
[00:25:07] Speaker D: I think what you're seeing in our city is a city collaboration. You know, we're all coming together and we want to do something important. You know, it's important that we've got this incredible moment.
We're lucky to, you know, at this time to have this amazing opportunity to be city of culture and to look at how that brings us together and resets, I suppose, how we work together in the future, what the important things are, our values, our principles and what we see as the future for our city and the role that people in the city, lots of different people, lots of different communities, across private, public and third sector, how we really can come together and genuinely build a city that citizens are proud of and feel really great ownership of and that are inclusive for everyone.
We have this great moment, and I think there'll be some great learning for us to take forward from this and to share with other cities and other colleagues and partners as we come out of our year. You know, we're leading a massive monitoring and evaluation program, the biggest of any city of culture yet. And so there'll be a huge amount of data, statistics, there'll be some great case studies for us to share, you know, across all industries. Because what we're trying to do is demonstrate the value of culture in all areas of life in a city and to really help those who are interested in building that collaboration and that relationship with cultural organizations, artists and the creative sector more generally, to really see the value that it can add to the work that we're all trying to do in our cities.
[00:26:57] Speaker E: So, in short, and you mentioned Terry hall there, Coventry is no longer a ghost town.
[00:27:03] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. We're a playful, dynamic, useful city.
And coming out of COVID we've created a city that has this really incredible creative signature all the way through it, from the foundations upwards. On any day you can come to Coventry and art is everywhere, in every building, on every surface, in all of the new infrastructure in the city. And that's a real testament to the partnerships that we've been able to build.
[00:27:35] Speaker E: Finally, would you agree with the notion that culture needs construction, but construction needs culture?
[00:27:42] Speaker D: Absolutely. Construction or the construction industry, they're kind of helping to reimagine, you know, what our cities are, who we are and what we're going to be in the future. And that's exactly the same agenda that culture has. You know, culture is about people, community, values, it's about how we behave, how we connect. And actually the coming together of the two is so vital.
And I hope we see more of that in the future because we can show in Coventry the real power of.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: That collaboration, constructive voices, the podcast for the construction people.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: So, Pete, we've been listening intently to that interview there with Shaneen from Coventry. I mean, what an absolutely fantastic opportunity for what is, in the grand scheme of things, a relatively small city in the uk. But it's going to make such a difference, as we've heard.
[00:28:36] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Like, it's fantastic to hear so much positivity there being generated in, in a country and obviously, and then in the city of Coventry itself getting, getting that opportunity, which, you know, it probably wouldn't have had previously, it would have had to do its own internal resources and it's an internal funding. Suddenly, as soon as they got the opportunity to be put on a platform like being being named of the, the City of culture for 2021, it then immediately ignited and accelerated all of the aspects of the city being improved in terms of infrastructures, buildings. And there was so much interesting stuff there that Shanin spoke about. So you know what, it's a classic example of how these things happen in history and going forward, there's countries out there that are sitting and waiting and bidding, like literally bidding to, to win the opportunity to host events like that. Because it puts their city, it puts their country in the spotlight and it allows them the opportunity to bring tourism and bring people to their country and, you know, showcase their country. You know what to do that they have to make sure it looks, looks really good. That's great for people like me and people in the construction industry in general.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: You know, all councils and organizations that are looking after the sort of economy of a particular area have always got plans, but sometimes they're sort of, you know, 10 year plans, 20 year plans, whatever they may be. Is it the case that when something like this comes along, it accelerates things that maybe were, were going to be quite a distance in the future, but suddenly it's like, well, we need to do this now.
[00:30:07] Speaker C: Yeah, there's no doubt about that. They will put in place systems and money into, into place that they probably previously wouldn't have done. Being involved in these, like, sporting occasions can generate money. Sometimes people say that they can actually, you know, be the opposite, that they can actually cost countries money. But there's no doubt about it, the country is showcased and the country has the opportunity to put itself on the map. And there's, there's so many records of this in, in history. You know, like, I've, I've heard a story, I'm sure a lot of people have heard about that. The royal family actually think that everywhere smells of fresh paint because everywhere they go, what happens? There's a royal visit coming. Everywhere gets painted, you know, so that room that was sitting down or even hallways when we were working in Trinity College, when there was a royal visit coming, literally their, their passageway through the college was marked out and every single bit of it was spick and span, you know, so that, that, that's just what happens. It's, it's a, it's a human reaction to make sure that you want to make sure your place looks good.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't get past the, the image now of the, the reason the Queen wears gloves is because, you know, it was always said that it's, you know, kind of a, a health thing, you know, because she's shaking lots of hands. But I'm thinking now that it was probably the first time she went to a new building and touched the wall and it was wet pain. She's like, okay, I'm wearing gloves from now.
[00:31:25] Speaker D: That's it.
[00:31:25] Speaker C: That's why she can't bring the corgis anywhere, because they all get covered in painting.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Exactly.
So, I mean, this, this is obviously a huge deal for Coventry and as you say, there are loads of these things going on all around the world. I find it quite interesting because I've lived in places where they have bid for things and sometimes I don't know if this is just a British thing or whether it expands to other parts of the world, but sometimes people are like, ah, what are we bidding for that for? What's the point of bidding for that? But actually, you've highlighted it really well because when these things happen, it is about the jobs and the prosperity and just, just the general improvement to the surrounding areas that it brings.
[00:32:03] Speaker C: Yeah, it's kind of an indirect positive. And some people, you know, view that in different ways. You know, some people just go, oh, that's going to cost our country, you know, millions or billions to do. Why would we do that? We should be doing X, Y and Z instead. And you know what, in some cases, they have absolutely legitimate reasons for saying that. But in the long and the bigger picture, what you're getting is the opportunity, as I said earlier, to showcase what you've got. I can remember watching when, when the Olympics was on in, in the UK and in London, and London looked absolutely amazing at the time. Like, it looked fantastic. And I can remember, like, I remember saying, well, I can't get. I can't wait to get back to London to, to see those places again and to be involved in that. And, and I can remember speaking to people that were there and they're saying it was so amazing that different areas of the, of the city were transformed into volleyball grounds and different things like that, you know, so it was really, really positive stuff. Like the, the biggest one that I can remember in history and it held the, the fight of the center of the, of the 20th century was the Rumble in the Jungle, which took place in Zaire. Obviously it was Muhammad Ali and George Foreman and like the dictator who was in charge in Zaire at the time and which is now the Congo. He basically had advisors from America in his, you know, management people, and Don King got to speak to them and, you know, as things start getting put in place. And then before you knew it, there was plain, loads of artists coming over and playing concerts. There was obviously Muhammad Ali and George Foreman got flew over and there was all these events happening. And I don't know if you remember this, but what actually happened was that George Foreman got caught a week or two before the fight was supposed to actually originally happen. And then the fight got put back by a couple of weeks because of that, or I think it was going to be put back by three weeks and he didn't let anybody leave. So they all stayed. All these people like James Brown and all these kind of, you know, really top artists that were stuck in, in, in Zoya and just so happened that none of the flights were, were going back out, so they had to stay there and they were holding all these amazing concerts and it was all this amazing stuff happening and the world was watching. And then of course, then again the fight itself took place and like the whole world at that time watched that fight. And it went down in history. The way that, that played one out. That was the rope of dope or Muhammad Ali took all the shots and George Foreman at the time was really heavily touted to, to possibly even like people were saying that Muhammad Ali might even die in the fight and all these type of things. So, you know, Ali done all the usual hype that he did, and it was really, you know, one of the most amazing kind of iconic times in history. And people will remember that that did happen in, in Africa, in Zaire at the time. And that was exactly what that guy wanted at the time. And Mobutu, I think, was the guy's name. And he, he wanted his country to be highlighted in a positive way. And it got all of these really famous people and I got all of this massive media spotlight brought to his country and put his country on the map. And then he was able to do, you know, other negotiations to, to whatever, whatever he had in his mind at that time. He was able to say, hi, it's me, the guy, the guy who just held the Rumble in the Jungle. So, like these, these are the type of things that are out there, you know, more on a more, let's say, basic level. If anyone has listened to the interview that we did a few weeks ago with Michael Parkinson on, on Liverpool, like, he explains so much in so detail and it's such an educated but clear way of, of the positivity that's been generated in Liverpool over the years through the regeneration and being noticed as a World Heritage Place. So there's so much, much positivity that that comes with all of those elements. And of course, the construction projects get done, the place looks amazing and then it stays like that. So, you know, I think, I think you've got to kind of think about the indirect positives that happen when these events happen rather than just immediately. Okay. It's going to cost us a lot of money to do X, Y and Z. And our, you know, our city is going to be trunk full of people and the traffic will be bad for that period of time. You have to think about the positivity that happens during, before, during and after.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Well, look, Pete, it's been great, speaking as always. We'll talk again next time.
[00:35:57] Speaker C: 100% Steve. Talk to you, my man.
[00:35:59] Speaker D: Cheers.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: And that's all for this episode of Constructive Voices. The next one's on the 20th of July. Don't forget you can get the latest episodes automatically using your favorite podcast app. Just hit subscribe or follow. And of course you can find out more on our website. Construction constructive-voices.com don't forget the dash until next time. Thanks for listening. You're really helping us build something.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Constructive Voices brought to you by Lewis Access British made scaffold towers and Access products.
