Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews.
Hello Tune, this is Jackie Demirka here from Constructive Voices. Quite excited today because we've just been announced to be a finalist in the Publisher Podcast Awards in two different categories. So that's really exciting news. But I'm also excited to have Anna Haas from Neustark here with me today. And in fact, Anna is going to be one of the first guests who will be talking about the city where she is based in terms of what's happening there at the moment. And that city is Zurich. Anna, would you like to just introduce yourself though first?
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Thank you Jackie, for having me. As you rightfully said, my name is Anna Haas. I live in Switzerland, close by to Zurich agglomeration work, based out of Zurich. I'm originally German, have been living in Switzerland for the past around about 10 years and yeah, did my studies in Germany and mining engineer by trade. Mining engineering is not what it used to be. So it really has gone into primary and secondary materials processing a lot when I did it and then started my journey in processing machines, food processing, working for a corporate for several years before shifting paths towards the startup world and seeing and more into the construction business. Also, I must admit that I come from a family with a construction background, so my dad has been in the business for over 40 years with his own little consulting engineering firm and my mom has worked for a large corporate also over 40 years. And construction has really been a dinner table topic. And the home I grew up in.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you can't get away from it. That's what happens. Indeed it does. Now we're going to be doing an episode that focuses on your work with your company and that'll be coming up within the same month as this particular episode. So everybody needs to keep their ears and eyes ready for that. But in the meantime, let's talk about Zurich. Zurich has actually been recognized as a leading sustainable city. It's even topped the Arcadis Sustainable Cities index list in 2016 and in 2024 it's in position 24 on that list. What are the key initiatives that have maintained Zurich's reputation in sustainability and how have those evolved since 2016?
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah, great question. I was actually surprised to hear that we topped in in 2016 and have like fallen back so much. I don't think that's so of what Zurich did or didn't do, but more like how other cities actually like chased us up because in a sense there's a lot of things ongoing. So Zurich Actually has like a net zero strategy by 2040 is always heavily investing into public infrastructure and trying to shift mobility away from individual transport toward or like individual. Yeah, gasoline fire transport, to put it that way, towards bikes, walking and really public infrastructure. And with many also little initiatives starting with parking over bicycle highways across town to even big things and launching carbon dioxide removal campaigns and targets for the city itself. What's also quite interesting, which I haven't seen much in other. Yeah, really in other municipalities or cities around Europe, is also the emphasis on sustainability and public tenders, which has really pushed the topic.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: Okay, that's really interesting. Thank you so much, Anna. Now how do you personally feel working in Zurich, especially as someone who's lived in quite a few places abroad?
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Overall, I would say Switzerland is a very livable country. Like it's very close to nature. And that also projects down to the city of Zurich very much. First thing, you need to compare entire Switzerland.
There's I think less people than in London. So Zurich is tiny compared to many or most other big European cities. And that makes a big difference in terms of how close nature is, how accessible, how congested many things are. It has the lake, you have a good view on good days. So I really have good air. I really enjoy working in Zurich, to be honest.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: That sounds really wonderful. Now this is ambitious goal of reducing energy consumption to 2000 watts per person by 2050 stands out to me. Can you elaborate Anna, on the strategies and policies Zurich is implementing to achieve this ambitious target?
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So my key understanding really is that this is part of the net zero 2040 strategy and really aims for that long term goal of 2,000 watts. As part of that net zero strategy, Zurich has done a large study on what are the influencing factors on the footprint. Basically the majority or the biggest influence for individual contribution that has been identified lays in mobility and infrastructure, but really real estate. So a lot of policies that serve this goal really go into the direction of changing behavior around these topics, especially in mobility. What I mentioned earlier, the public transport also making commuting by car really less attractive. A lot of nudging in that sense. And the other aspect with real estate is also around how well insulated a house is, what is the heating system, where do we get the energy from, like the known levers, but very well linked to actual projects. And also there's pilot borrows for many things where things are trialed before they're rolled out across entire city. And what is also probably very specific to Switzerland and Zurich is the direct democracy and Many things like involving the people and getting decisions in on how things should actually be done and driven. But that also gets you the buy in of the population.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: That sounds really interesting. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So across Switzerland, Zurich is known as a. I would say, yeah, urban versus rural areas. Normal discussion in terms of. Okay, how interested are people in vegetarian vegan diets? How prone are they to taking more. Yeah. Or more detailed attention to green trends and these kind of things. I would say Zurich is very much topping up this list. There's a lot of consciousness around ecological topics. It's politically more on the left and like with the green parties than other regions.
And when. So the direct democracy works on several levels. Right. You have the country level votes, but they go down to the municipalities and the people can actually also suggest initiatives and if you get enough signatures then they will be before the ballot, so to say. And with a population backing a lot of these green topics, I just generally call them, you get a lot of these through politically by. Yeah, by population. Buy in very much.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: That sounds like it should be done everywhere really, doesn't it?
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Yes, I'd agree. I'm a big supporter of direct democracy, to be honest. It is also a matter of trust, like trusting the people to make educated choices. Trusting the people to also make good overall choices. And I feel like politics is sometimes lacking that. At the same time, a smaller country is easier to manage than a large one. So I think it's a difficult debate. But I would also really advocate for more direct democracy and involving the people.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Certainly. I think if the people feel involved, they have a responsibility and they can see that their wishes either if they're in the minority, at least their wishes are being put forward and considered, which is really important.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Easy to accept it. You had a choice and then you took it or you didn't. And that's it.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: You don't feel so overpowered sometimes. But it's really more like an empowering thing.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: So they respect. If they don't get the majorities on it. And you can. If you don't agree, you can always try again.
Yeah. Sometimes the public sentiment really changes over time.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. No, I think it's really excellent. Now Switzerland boasts impressive recycling rates with statistics around 94% of old glass and 81% of PET containers being recycled. How has Zurich contributed to this national achievement? And are there any local programs driving these high recycling rates?
[00:09:38] Speaker B: It's an interesting question. I'm aware that there's like particular programs in Zurich that would push that really know more of the general initiatives there are and they'd include like big also marketing campaigns around town. Just even if you don't really read it, you've seen it again. And then in all public situations or like semi public, like in train. I'm commuting to Zurich every day. So when you pass by the train, wherever you go, there's like an extra bin for pet. And really from early on, from primary school onwards, you're taught on how to recycle things. It really starts there. For me, coming from a different country, it was actually quite interesting to see how much behavior is drained and then also publicly nudged in terms of recycling. And that works quite well because I think the approach is it's never finished, like it's an ongoing effort. And they also see when the recycling rates drop a little bit, then it's time for another campaign.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Wow, okay, that's really also really interesting. So yes, it's happening from young ages upwards, which is really important to the society, isn't it?
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Very much.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Zurich as the city has made significant strides. Anna. In promoting car free lifestyles and enhancing public transportation. What recent developments have encouraged residents to adopt more sustainable modes of transport.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: So also when I started the conversation off is really the bicycle highways around town. So where you actually prioritize bicycle traffic before everybody else. And that really gets people to change and shift because they can see that they can actually cross the city much faster by biking instead of taking a car. I'd never take a car in Zurich. I get so annoyed if I sometimes have to because you have to pick something up but try to avoid it by any means. Also like parking fees are immensely high. So there's like the both direction like the negative associations with the undesired behavior and also the supporting of everything else. And recent, what's been recent. So there's been a new train or a suburban metro introduced connecting another part of town with more than buses basically with that train to the city. That helped a lot because it makes the transport more efficient. And these infrastructure projects are expensive, but I see them always being prioritized. Also really a reason why it works is because public transport is very reliable and there's also high emphasis on that reliability. If you know you have a meeting at 8 and you're not sure whether you have a massive delay and you have to take two trains earlier. In other cities you would then probably opt for another option. But in Switzerland it's like a 98% chance you hit the mark and that really helps.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: That must be an amazing experience given that you've lived in places that are less efficient that I know. Yeah.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Let's summarize it though.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So no, that's amazing. So like just talking about yourself, where you're located, somewhere in the countryside outside of Zurich, how much time does it take you to come into Zurich city?
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Actually, so I have, I have four connections an hour, so every 15 minutes basically to go into town. And two of them are express trains and two are a little slower. The express train takes me 35 minutes station to station and then door to door. I basically have 45 minutes to work. That works very well because I walk to the station, take the train and then I also walk to work again. I feel like it's a dream because you don't have to change trains. I can just work while commuting at the same time.
Let's see, how has it been? Yeah, that's a perk. Working from Neustadt, the full time employees in Switzerland actually get like a full travel pass. That's fantastic. Salary. Yeah, it's really again nudged that you take the train and don't opt for any other option. And I've got, I think I've never privately, I've never owned a car in my entire life. I can drive, I like driving, but I try to organize my life and also my living situation in a way that really kind of works quite optimally with public offerings.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Fantastic. That's really wonderful. So Zurich's commitment, Anna, to expanding green spaces is also evident with legislation ensuring the 30% of Switzerland's surface is comprised of forests and woodlands. Now how does the city balance urban development with this preservation and expansion of green areas?
[00:14:46] Speaker B: The expensive tunneling, okay, that is definitely one part of it that doesn't only have fans because these projects are also lengthy. Like they take a lot of time and they're very expensive. But once they're done, usually people really appreciate it. That's the main thing. Like for really the urban spaces.
And as mentioned also like the pilot borrows where you would like trial greening areas and these kind of things, but really don't know to the last detail how these initiatives work.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Okay, that's fine. Like in general it's, it's great to find out now also the city has a focus on sustainable mobility, including extensive cycling and walking networks. How are those integrated with the public transport? Do you know, to promote seamless travel?
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So one big project that's actually still currently ongoing is like a big bicycle tunnel at the main station. So that you could actually have these points connect better to one another.
Also on big stations there's in regions where you then have a little bit of lack of a public transport, you would always have a mobility in terms of car sharing option at the stations that you can also partially even book. Yeah. In the whole mobility solution over the public services as well.
Yeah. A lot of bicycle parking around the stations. I think that is how it integrates very well.
And I don't know if you've been to cities or lived in cities where they had public transport, but it just didn't really make sense. So that like the national rail didn't connect well to the local one. And I feel like that has been solved quite well around here.
So that it's not complicated, but it's planned in an efficient manner. Planning makes a lot of difference. And you like it's not about having something or not having something, but having thought about it makes a lot of difference as well.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's obviously one of the problems in many sort of genres. If you like healthcare, for example, you've got disciplines working completely separately from each other, whereas the person is one whole. So in a very similar way, of course, at the end of the day.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: And sometimes it's like interfaces. I think this is also one thing that makes it really connect very well, is that the national train and the regional trains, they all work over one app. It's not that you need different apps for different ticketing for different service providers. And it's been some time back more than 10 years that I lived in Barcelona, so by now it might have changed, but I remember they had the renfe and that was a different system that like the other trains and it was so complicated to even figure it out and to make that easy and accessible is just already such a relief or easy entry points. Makes it easier to use.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: I'm not too sure if it's changed either, but I know exactly what you're talking about obviously. So listen, community, which is obviously at the center of everything. The involvement of the community plays a huge role, doesn't it, in Zurich sustainability efforts. How are residents, Anna, engaged in co creating initiatives? I know we've touched on it slightly. Obviously with direct democracy that enhance the city's resilience and environmental stewardship.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the pilot boroughs are a great example for that. Looking at the fact that you're trialing a change of a borough over maybe a year and how you could change the setup of the roads for easier walkability or Bikeability and disadvantaging the cars again, once more. People are usually asked in terms of what makes sense or where would you rather still have the roads? And then what they do is often ask people to come together on a monthly basis or the public opportunity, not only over QR code to give feedback on things that are currently tested there, but also to come together, discuss.
And then based on these findings, and this is also where the universities are often involved, they then create concepts what to actually implement and what not to. And I think that builds a lot around getting the people together and trying to get as much feedback as possible.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Sounds really excellent. Now, looking ahead, Anna, what upcoming projects or policies in Zurich are there that excite you most in terms of advancing sustainability, resilience and biodiversity?
[00:19:45] Speaker B: For me, it's really the CDR projects and that Zurich is really also subsidizing carbon dioxide removal and really storing it permanently. And so they're really thinking about, okay, even if we've done all the measures we can do, there will be residual emissions left and we have to store them somewhere. And so they're already piloting and trialing like geological storage in Iceland. They're also subsidizing this in order to make it happen because many of these things are currently not economically viable, but in order to gain the experience and have an outlook on what it could look like in 10, 20 years time. I really encourage that they're doing that because I feel like if you're there in 2039 and you figure now we still have residual emissions, okay, let's plant some trees. That would just be unprofessional. So I really enjoy how serious they take it and that they're really looking into solutions.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Fantastic. Now, it's been a really interesting conversation and actually I feel like I've learned an awful lot about Zurich. I would even consider moving there after everything you've said. Definitely it sounds bad either.
So you've done a great job of talking about Zurich and I'm really looking forward to our next conversation for the episode that will feature the company that you're working with, Neustark. And that will be the next episode of Constructive Voices. So do listen out for Anna again. Thank you so much, Anna.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices.
