Damien Queally of Plan International on Empowering Youth for Sustainable Change

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Hi, this is Jackie Duberca here for Constructive Voices. I'm absolutely thrilled to say that this month is Youth Month at Constructive Voices and this has been led by the amazing Keira o' Brien, who's a very gifted youth volunteer here at Constructive Voices and she's going to do a series of four podcasts during the this month, all of them about different subjects that it's all interrelated to do with organisations and work being done by younger people or medical people. There's everything is interconnected regarding our society and the work that's been done today by young people. So the very first interview that we have with Ciera with Damian Quilly, who's the Chief Program Officer at Plan International, Damien, shows how locally led programs, through a strong gender lens and real youth decision making can drive last sustainable change and why right now, in an era of droughts, floods, displacement, hunger, climate resilient, community owned solutions are non negotiable. And now over to you, Kira. [00:01:17] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices. [00:01:19] Speaker C: I'm Kira, I'm a youth activist with Plan International and today I'm here with Damian, who is the Chief Programs Officer for Plan International. Damien, so nice to talk to you today. Would you mind introducing yourself? [00:01:34] Speaker D: Sure. Hi, Kira. Yep. My name is Damian Quilly and I'm the Chief Programs Officer for Plan International. I've been working for Plan for quite a number of years in country offices, regional offices, national organizations, and I'm now in the global hub leading a broad department related to our programming work. [00:01:52] Speaker C: Amazing. So could you explain then what programs are like in Plan International for people who haven't really heard of the organization? [00:01:59] Speaker D: Yeah, sure. Like obviously they vary based on context, you know, whether you're working in South Sudan in food insecurity areas or whether you're working in Togo around more development related initiatives. There'll always be a contextual aspects to the program, but we have kind of key thematic areas that we work on and they are around our early childhood development, education, protection from violence, sexual reproductive health and rights. Also livelihoods and youth economic empowerment. And of course then we have a theme called lead, which is our youth engagement, youth participation that cuts across all the different areas that we work in. Then in humanitarian context we also of course draw on those particular areas, but we have other nuances based on food security. So we could be doing food distributions, non food item distributions, cash and voucher related programs, mental health, psychosocial support. So it kind of looks at a whole life cycle of a child and of a girl and how you ensure that you're addressing some of the key challenges that program participants face, whether it's at the early stages in their life or whether it's the economic opportunity areas in their life and trying to ensure we contextualise programs to address the specific needs in the communities that we work in. [00:03:16] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. I know some of the campaigns in Ireland we were doing period poverty and stuff like that. And then the global side is more child marriage. So it's super, super broad, but generally with a gender lens, I think that' fair to say. [00:03:28] Speaker D: Yeah, no, absolutely. And of course we also know, like when you mentioned period poverty, one of the key themes we also bring into, especially our humanitarian related work when we are doing distributions for people who have been forcibly displaced or refugees, that if we are giving them some non food items and hygiene kits, that we make sure there are menstrual hygiene products in there as well, because they're often overlooked. So I think that gender lens in all of the different aspects we do needs to come out very strong. Otherwise we may be doing a generic response but missing specific needs of different genders or identities within that group. [00:04:05] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. So kind of focusing on that gender lens, the intersectional lens. Is there any other kind of philosophy that you approach program planning with? [00:04:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I think one of the key parts is that we want to do it with communities and with the program participants that we're serving and with local actors as well. Like people will have heard of the localization agenda and that needs to be really driving everything we do. And of course that means different things in different parts of the organization. But when it comes to programming, it's about ensuring that we are designing the programs with those who are participating in those programs. That it's not me sitting in the global hub saying, oh, let's do this program in this community in Togo, when actually that may be not what the community in Togo wants at all. So we really need to bring that humbleness into what we do. And whilst we have different levels of expertise depending on our role, it's about ensuring that the voices of the communities, the voices of the young people, the voices of the children, the girls that we work with are flagging what their specific needs are at a point in time and how we best partner with them and with local actors to address those needs and create the opportunities that those communities want to benefit from. [00:05:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a lot of people will be relieved to see that more cooperative approach. It can be a negative perception of humanitarian aid, that it's this kind of white savior idea or this swooping in at the last minute. But it's nice to hear the kind of cooperative lens, but also then with the cooperation, it needs to be focused then on global cooperation and global initiatives. And I'm thinking about sustainability more specifically. So how is sustainability approached in your work? [00:05:48] Speaker D: Yeah, no, it's a good point. And you know, just back to the white saviorism piece. I think that was very much part of many organizations identity for many years. You know, in clan, I'm actually quite proud that we only have about, I think it's 1.5% of our staff are international, like we're 98.5% are local staff from the communities from the countries that we work in. So I think that's really important because like they understand the context, they understand the dynamics, the culture, they lived realities. And I think it's really important that they are the ones that are driving and influencing what we do. And that touches on the sustainability piece as well. Because if it is local actors that you're working with local partners, if it is with national staff from those countries, then they will be able to continue the work even if plan is no longer there. I think also a key part of our sustainability is when we are working with local partners, that it's a genuine partnership and it's not us telling them what they need to do, really working with them, addressing the specific needs in whatever community it may be and that we are passing on skill sets that they may need to be more sustainable themselves. Because you know, the funding environment is really tough and competitive and institutional donors have so many rules and compliance requirements that if you're a small local actor, it's almost impossible for you to be able to adhere to all of them. So it's what is our value add in those partnerships and how can we help strengthen those local actors in areas that they may need that support so that they can also, you know, start seeking alternative types of funding so they can be sustainable. I think the other part of that sustainability is just kind of as you work with local actors and local communities and with the young people in the programs having their, you know, having them own it means that they will continue afterwards. And you know, we, we shouldn't be in a community for 30, 40 years because then the communities become dependent on us rather than, you know, this self reliance that they need to build up themselves. But also the local governments and the regional governments owning their development needs and being accountable to the communities and the population. They work with. And I think there are some of the key parts of that sustainability. It's that local ownership, engagement with local donors, engagement with local government, strengthening that local civil society so that they can continue and scale out the work that we have been contributing to. [00:08:16] Speaker C: Yeah, that lens about identifying with the cause and I am an activist or I am an advocate or I am someone who betters my community, I think is so, so important. And you see it a lot with people who kind of drop out of these kind of programs because they just don't feel that they personally are connected to it or are invested in. And it's great to see that kind of, I don't know, I guess that focus on connecting the people with the team so much so I guess people who might be thinking, oh, actually I am a leader in this social initiative or I do have the capacity to run a project in my community. Do you have any advice to someone like that planning just a small scale social initiative? [00:09:01] Speaker D: Yeah. And we have seen many examples of that. One thing I like about our sponsorship programming is it allows us to stay for a longer period of time in communities and it's more flexible in terms of adapting to the needs of what the communities are identifying. And we have seen some of the people who have been part of our sponsorship program who are now mayors of their town, they have set up little enterprises and business and they're hiring people into their business and creating new employment. We've seen from our youth entrepreneurial work where, you know, we have supported in terms of some of the business skills and financial skills and entrepreneurship skills and then given some seed funding to some groups who want to go ahead then and set up their little business that then actually expands and they get and they employ more people in the community and they become role models, you know, for many in the community. And I know we'll touch on child early and forced marriage in a bit. But like, you know, where we have worked with young women and created that economic opportunity space for them, it actually shows the community that, you know, being a bride isn't the only option for a woman. They actually can be business leaders, they can be social activists, they can be social entrepreneurs. And therefore investing in their education and keeping them in school is so important. But I think in terms of advice, you know, one thing of course is to really know what is the problem you're trying to solve or what is the issue you're trying to address and that that resonates with a group within that community or that sector that you want to work on. I think the other thing is bringing those allies along and having them engage, because no matter what you do, there'll always be some skeptics that'll be going against it. And especially in this age of social media, when disinformation is just so common that it's important to have strong voices there with you to keep the opportunity alive. I think then seeing if there's opportunities for mentorship with others who might have done that before are people who have worked in social enterprise. You know, there are some corporates that would be willing to volunteer time to support in areas that somebody might need that support in and, you know, having them engage and, you know, help with some of the more challenging aspects maybe of setting up the social enterprise and doing some of the work and seeing how we can use, you know, social media and digital to your advantage. So, yeah, I think. And then looking at other social enterprises that may already be in place and learning from them and have a little kind of community of practice because nobody has everything figured out. And the more we kind of share and engage and that I think, really can help as well to support some of the work that, you know, smaller enterprises might be trying to do. And we have a great initiative in plan. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. I'm sure you have. Actually, it's the Equality Accelerator, you know, where we give small kind of funding to youth groups and to do initiatives that they want to do in their communities. And those initiatives, they're kind of proposed by whatever youth group it might be. It's reviewed by young people, and young people make the decision about how to allocate the funding. And the rules around it are much lighter and not as compliant as it would be for kind of an institutional donor. And we have, over the last six or seven years, allocated over a million euro to youth groups as part of that initiative. So there's also those kind of opportunities there as well, if people are aware of them and how they can tap into them. [00:12:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I know the Youth Advisory Panel in Ireland, we have little grants, micro grants that we can give out. It's about €500. But part of that then is focusing on getting the young people to make the budget and make the plan and book the rooms and book the spaces and know how to do that. So it's upskilling as well as actually running the social initiative too. So it's nice to see the kind of, I don't know, getting that value worth out of that donation, I suppose, because you're both Upskilling people who will make a change in the future. But you're also making change now, which is nice to see. And then as one of those young people involved in Plan, I want to ask you about how young people are included in decision making power in Plan International because we've talked a bit about how young people can be advocates for change or can run their own social initiative, or might set up their own business or anything like that, or just even be generally helpful and a part of their community. But specifically in terms of decision making power, how does that work for young people in Plan International? [00:13:39] Speaker D: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it's something that we have evolved in over the last five, seven years. It's one of the areas that actually feel quite passionate about and one of the areas, I think we have made a lot of progress in the organization because we used to do this before and it was more tokenistic. You bring 15 young people to our largest governance body meeting and they'd have a kind of a shadow meeting on the side and you know, there'd be a readout of some of their discussions and then everybody would fly home again and that would be it. And you know, I felt that wasn't really deep and meaningful. Whereas over the last few years we have, you know, a number of, just even speaking about the global hub, we have a number of key projects that we're delivering on related to kind of our research work, related to our broader global influencing and advocacy, related to our humanitarian scale up, our next gen sponsorship, revitalization and there's a number of others as well. And we have youth representatives sitting on the steering committee of each of those key areas. And they are an equal member on that steering committee, sharing their thoughts, their ideas, their challenges and helping to drive the project forward in whatever project they're actually engaged in. So I think that has been something really, really positive. And I've genuinely seen those voices influence what happens next in a particular program. We also have, I think it was two years ago the Members assembly, which is our highest governing body for the first time, allocated two formal seats to youth representatives with decision making authority and voting rights, which was never done before in our 80 plus years history to have those voting rights. And they are very conscious, the chair of that group is very conscious to bring in those voices in every meeting and make sure that they are heard and that their perspectives are shared and that they are taken up as actions. If they are action, if the points are action orientated and really considered by management as we Move forward. The program committee, it's a subcommittee of the International Board. They also bring two youth reference group members into those discussions. And I know the chair of that group, which is Rabia, is always super keen that, you know, when we are presenting any of our work, that we are bringing in voices of young people who are part of that work so they can share their experiences about what's working well, what isn't working well, and having their. Yeah, their voice is very much influencing what the committees do as well. And then I've seen across country offices where they have youth advisory groups as well. Some of them sit in management team meetings every quarter. Some of them are involved in the strategy design, in the strategy review, in program design and project design. So it happens kind of in multiple layers. But maybe, you know, back to you, like you said, you've been part of this in Plan Ireland as well. Like, how have you found it in Plan Ireland? And I believe you actually are on one of the subcommittees of the board in Plan Ireland as well. [00:16:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I'm on the marketing and fundraising subcommittee. And one of my very talented and clever friends is on the board with full voting rights, which is, which is very good to see, very interesting. And it's nice to. It's nice to be involved. But I think a lot of people, people are going to be thinking when they, when they hear this. You're going to be thinking, why? What's the point? So much effort, so much change, so much time, quite a bit of money, even though we're volunteers, it takes a lot to upskill to do the safeguarding, all of this. So what's your answer then to why? [00:17:13] Speaker D: I probably would put the question back to you. Why do you do it? From my perspective, I think the why it. From Plan's perspective, the why is that if we don't bring young voices into those spaces, then we're making decisions that impact those young people without actually really knowing if that's the right decision. So if you haven't those young voices coming in, whether it's into your project design or whether it's into your country leadership team, or whether it's into your national organization or board or key projects, if you're not bringing those voices in, then you're kind of going, you know, with one eye closed, you know, and like, whilst your intent may be good, it doesn't necessarily mean you're responding to something that's most critical for young people. And, you know, I do believe that, you know, you shouldn't do something for someone without Bringing them with you to understand what they actually want from that. So from an organization perspective, I see the huge importance in it. But I guess as somebody who is then on the. Who is that youth voice in the group? Does that resonate or why do you do it? Because it is a lot of time and it does take a lot of energy. [00:18:27] Speaker C: Yeah, it definitely has been a good few, good few full days over the past couple of years and it does take a lot of prep work to get to those meetings that take a while. But yeah, I think it's fundamentally about democracy. I think that would be like my simplest answer is that it's social change, but the social change has to be for everyone. I think what you say about it being relevant for you is so true. In my experience, you have the people who are only 30, but they're not getting it because it's changing so quickly now with social media and different projects. I remember my very first plan meeting. We explained to the coordinators what a teenage disco was and like the kind of. Yeah, you know, like the kind of gendered implications and the kind of milder forms of gender based violence that were happening at these teenage discos when we were 12 or 13. And the coordinators had never heard of these things because they were very new. And even with the current child marriage campaign, seeing all the social media elements to child marriage, which I personally would never have expected, which is so, so interesting, but it really comes down to democracy. And someone mightn't be an expert in terms of the literature, but they might be an expert in terms of experience. So it's so useful and so interesting. [00:19:56] Speaker D: Yeah, I think that's a very good point. It is changing so fast and if you're not having the right people involved in those conversations, you're addressing something that might have been an issue for me when I was 30, but completely different to somebody who's that age now or 20 or things like that. And with the age of social media and with, you know, so many toxic forces out there, you know, really pushing back on gender rights and intersectionality and everything else. Like it's. If you haven't, if, if you're only watching it from the outside, you don't really know what that really means and feels. So I think having the people who actually are feeling that and living it and experiencing it will really make whatever work you do more impactful and meaningful because actually you're doing what resonates with the individuals who are feeling it. [00:20:45] Speaker C: Yeah. You mentioned briefly the rollback of rights. I suppose so I'm thinking then the role of international institutions, even the existence of them is now being called into question more often with the rollback on rights, but also the rise of anti right groups globally. So anti feminists say, and they're saying that, look, what really are organizations doing here and are they actually doing anything? Are they useful? Are they wasting money? Is it bureaucracy? So what do you say to the people on both the left and the right of the political spectrum who are skeptical of the role of international organizations and like charities more broadly? [00:21:31] Speaker D: Yeah, like it is a changing time and as we mentioned earlier, like on this digital age, a lot of things can be said with no accountability for them at all, whether they're true or false. Like we've seen so many false statements coming through on social media from political leaders in very powerful countries that, you know, just challenge what is true anymore. And that is worrying. I do think there is still a significant majority that really recognize that global, solid global solidarity is important and is key and it's what makes us humans. And you know, whilst there's a rising nationalist agenda happening in many countries and as you said, anti immigrants and everything else, you know, I think there, it is really important that there is more simpler messaging going out in terms of what organizations do using language that resonates with individuals at times in INGOs, they get very caught up in our sector and our terminology and our technical language. And if I'm talking to my mum. [00:22:37] Speaker C: If I'm talking about international non governmental organizations. [00:22:41] Speaker D: Exactly. I think if I'm talking to my mum about intersectional property, she'd be kind of going, what do you mean? Or if I talk to my mom about, you know, there are so many people that because of climate change, largely driven by global north, is leading to, you know, more droughts, more floods, more displacements, more hunger. You know, these are real things that are happening in the lives of individuals. And if we have a means to help support those lives and help communities rebuild after a disaster or after flooding or whatever it might be, then, you know, we have a, there's a humanity within us that should actually really support that and do what we can to help that. Of course, it doesn't mean we need to forget people at home as well. We have to make sure we have, you know, programs at home that address, you know, vulnerable households and vulnerable individuals and the needs that are there. And. But for me it's not an either are. It's like we need, we need to do both and we need to get that balance right and then we Just need to communicate that change and tell the story. Because, you know, we need complex indicators to go to our donors to show the impact of what we're doing. It's a different story we need to tell the general public. And I think showing those real stories, like the horror that we're seeing in Gaza is just absolutely unbelievable. And there's so many countries that have so many challenges. Haiti and the gangs that are taking over and the sexual violence, the rape of children, of girls, of women. You know, they're real lives that are being impacted. And if somebody can contribute something, whether it's through influencing their government or whether it's through providing funding to local organizations and projects to address some of these needs, then that is a central part of what humanity is. And it's that solidarity that I think we really need to continue to hold onto. Because in the end, it is one world and we are all connected. [00:24:31] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And that connection is so much more prevalent now in recent years. Like you say with, with Gaza, we're all watching from our phones and we wouldn't have, wouldn't have had that in previous conflicts and previous genocides. So it's vital that we're not only just seeing what's happening, but we're doing something about it, or at least trying to do something about it. And I love to see Plan International specifically have different kind of subgroups that kind of work together to share information and knowledge. So I know some of our technology came from the Plan Canada office. We have a social media program which we share with the PLAN Philippines and the Plan Liberia offices. So that kind of knowledge sharing is so interesting, but it's also, it's just so relevant given that we're using the same Internet that Plan Canada is using. So why would we not share the software? I love that message in general. And then when we're talking about these global issues, the main global issue that PLAN is focusing on for this, this month in particular, October 2025, is child marriage. That's the topic of the State of the World Girls Report for this year. And the campaigner and International Day of the Girl is focused on that. So would you like to tell. Tell people about the issue of child marriage and how international organizations are approaching this in that way that we speak to the general public so that people understand what we're doing? [00:26:05] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a hugely important topic and we are doing quite a lot of work around this, especially in our Asia region and across the continent of Africa, because, like, that the prevalence is so, so high. And you know, I have 14 nieces and nephews. And you know, when I got to be talking to some of my family about this and just saying, you know, if you look at Maureen, one of my nieces, she's 14, saying if she was in Niger, she could be married now. Yep. And they're kind of going, what? No, that makes no sense. Like she's only a child, she's just started secondary school. And they're going, yeah, but that's the case for millions of girls every year. And if we don't take more urgent action on child and early enforced marriage and union, we will see another 150 million girls married before the age of 18 by 2030. That's a lot of girls lives that are just thrown up in the air. And in the research we did, like over a quarter of the girls that we spoke with who had been in either a child, marriage or a union, they had no choice in that. That was a decision made on their behalf by their parents or guardian or whoever it may be. And sometimes it's down to poverty because they don't see any other option for them. Or sometimes they're saying, oh, well, you know, she's a teenager now, if we don't marry her, she may get pregnant and then nobody want to marry her and she'll bring shame on the family or. Because as we were saying earlier, if they don't see any other option for that young woman in society, then they're saying, well, she's going to be a wife anyway, so why not just do it now rather than waiting? And, you know, they see that as just kind of culture and social norms. So I think it's really important that, you know, we're having those conversations in communities around the importance of allowing girls to stay in school, of those economic opportunity aspects of their rights, you know, because the 15 countries we did the study in, the national laws are all saying child marriage is illegal. But there's one thing having a law, it's the implementation of that that is so important. And it's about ensuring that implementation gets right down into grassroot community areas. It's about engaging those village leaders, religious leaders, teachers, parents, communities at large around bringing out the harmful practice. That this is both from just from the child's life itself, but also there's huge issues in terms of mental health, in terms of medical, teenage pregnancies and the risks that come with all of that. A lot of the girls who were in those forced marriage and unions were saying that there's very little decision making authority in the household. Yet they are the main caregivers. They get no support from the community because they're deemed now to be the possession of this man and that man will look after them. A lot of them have articulated how they have been subjected to domestic violence and no real recourse for them to do anything about that. So for me, it's at all stages of that life of the child and young person that I think is really important that, you know, we, we are trying to ensure that they are not married young, that communities see the potential and the opportunity and the rights of those individuals and that we look across our education and our sexual reproductive health and rights and our protection programming and our youth employment programming and our youth activism to really, you know, address the root causes of this and speak about it from the rooftop. Because I don't want to see my 14 year old niece married. No more than, you know, somebody in Niger or India would want to see their 14 year old niece married. [00:29:42] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very, it's a very good way of putting it with sometimes it really does take pointing out a nearby child to actually activate people's empathy. And then also sometimes the empathy can be a bit lacking. And you say. Because it is. There are a relatively large proportion of the girls who say that they had some say or some choice in this. But if you think about they might. One of the things I thought was really interesting was girls saying that they chose to get married to their boyfriends so that their parents didn't marry them off a year later to someone else or that they had a boyfriend and then their parents forced them to marry that boyfriend because it was so shameful to have this informal relationship. But I also then think about myself at 14, 15 and thinking if you have to marry the first person you date, and realistically, yeah, I chose to date those people, but I'm very glad now that I'm not married to them. And it's that kind of that empathy thing there is it might, they might, they might say it's a choice. That doesn't mean it's actually a choice. That doesn't mean it's actually what they, what they would choose independent of these scenarios. The report is so interesting to read and I'll link it in the description of the podcast so that people can go and have a read themselves. [00:31:07] Speaker D: I think you make a good point there in terms of some of them did go into it because it was their choice. I think the important nuance on that as well though is that, you know, when you're 15, 16. Understanding what being married means and the implications of that and how life generally plays out in that space, I think it's also really important. And I think part of that education is also for young individuals to understand risks with early pregnancy, what rights they will have in that union when they are in that union, what freedoms they will have. Will they be able to continue in school? Because a lot of them dropped out of school when they got married. They had no choice on it. So I think understanding the implications of it is a key part of what we need to do more of as well. [00:31:54] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And something that was interesting in the report was that a lot of the girls who were interviewed actually were divorced, and that's something you don't really think about. Like, people will probably have heard of child marriage as a social justice issue, but child divorce is something that we really don't. Really don't talk about. So even if they are. If they are in informal unions or formal unions, is there a way for them to get out of them? Because if a country only has legal unions from the age of 18, well, then you can't get divorced at 17. So it's. It's really interesting, and the report is definitely worth the read, especially for the human stories. It's lovely to hear. It's not lovely, but it's refreshing to hear from the girls themselves rather than narratives around their lives that they don't get to control. Yeah. So any other message for listeners as we finish up our podcast for today? [00:32:54] Speaker D: I think. I think it's really important that we all do use our voice for good and that we, with the age of social media and the disinformation, we need to question everything that we are seeing and reading and fact check as much as we can, and don't lose that humanity and global solidarity, because that's what makes us human and that's what makes the world a better place. One day at a time. [00:33:22] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely agree with that. I think empathy and curiosity are the way forward, and that requires working together. [00:33:29] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. [00:33:30] Speaker C: All right. Thank you so, so much for joining us today. [00:33:34] Speaker D: Thank you, Kira. It's great speaking with you. [00:33:36] Speaker A: This is constructive voices.