Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Hi and welcome to Constructive Voices. I'm Steve Randall and I'm joined, as always, by Pete the builder, Peter Finn. Hi, Pete, how are you doing?
[00:00:14] Speaker C: All good, Steve. All good. How are you?
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Yeah, very well, thank you, and looking forward to another great interview. We've had recently a number of guests in a series we're calling Female In Focus and we've been speaking to some amazing women in engineering, construction around those sort of industries and finding out, obviously, about what they do and some of the amazing projects they've worked on. But also what it's like being a woman trying to get into the industry and progress in the industry. And we've got Magda on today who has a brilliant story to tell.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: Yeah, Emma and Magda have a great conversation, really gave us an insight into what's it like to be a woman coming into and what would have been a male dominated industry when she started off. And it was very interesting to hear her story. Her family does have some engineering in the background, as in its history, and her father was a mathematician. But Magda started off as a ballet dancer, and quite a successful one by the sounds of it. And then she had to make a decision then as to what her career was going to be going forward. And very early in her life, she chose engineering as the path forward and it obviously was a very wise decision because she has excelled in her field. So it's a really good story.
She's very honest and very open about her struggles and her successes. And she's from Poland originally and then obviously English wouldn't have been her first language. So what it was like for her to have to learn a new language and then to then work with that language then because there's one thing learning a language, but then there's another thing when you actually start trading or working in a work environment. It wasn't an easy transition to go from where she was living to working internationally as well. So it was great to hear her explain how she had to work hard to get there and get her first break. And then once she did, then obviously her network opened up massively and then she had the ability then to connect with other people and learn so much and to be involved in some really interesting projects as well.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Well, let's hand over to Emma Nicholson and Magda and we'll come back at the end and chat more.
[00:02:33] Speaker D: So I am a chartered environmentalist and Principal sustainability project manager with a national multidisciplinary consultancy working in the built environment. I've worked as a project manager and also in sustainability in the built environment for about 25 years. Previous board trustee with the Women's Engineering Society.
I'm EDI Specialist Interest Group, chair of the Women's Engineering Society and a member of the Charter Institute of Buildings EDI Advisory Group. And I founded Women in Sustainable Construction and Property LinkedIn Group in 2011.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: So. My name is Magdalena Sarton. I'm the civil structural engineer. By background, my current role is global reliability, excellence and engineering senior directors for a multinational company called Cargill. In the agricultural business.
My background, I've worked in various industries. I started in residential, then moved into commercial, also industrial. I work also in oil and gas companies and offshore platforms and in the refining and chemical plants. I've been in engineering design roles and past, I would say, ten years in leadership roles. So I'm super excited to be here and share with you my career and experiences.
[00:03:59] Speaker D: Mado it's a real pleasure to meet you, and you have had such an interesting career in engineering and also strong leadership roles. Can you tell us how you got into engineering and what really motivates you with regards to engineering?
[00:04:13] Speaker A: Yes, sure. Emma so this was a little bit interesting story because I've never planned to be an engineer. When I was younger, I was trained to be a professional ballet dancer, which you couldn't be further away from engineering. So how did I get into it? I got a little bit of help, I would say, from my father. He very early realized that I'm very good in math and physics. That in a country. So I'm from Poland. Maybe being a ballet dancer wasn't the best career for somebody who also had lots of different hobbies, like horse riding, very expensive ones. So he kind of had a conversations with me about my plans. And at the age of 15, I had to make my first decision, and I did it by myself, with his guidance. Okay, what do I want to do in my life? Where do I want to focus? And very simple how I'm going to earn for that. And at the time, engineering just seemed like the right choice because of the skills I had. So I applied to university in Poland. You need to pass the exams to get the places I got the place. And I think that's how it all started.
[00:05:34] Speaker D: In terms of the inspiration, with regards to your career, was it a family member? Was it your father who inspired you? Was it a particular role model that inspired you to go into engineering?
[00:05:45] Speaker A: I wouldn't say that anybody in particular inspired me. I would say I did came from the family of engineers and mathematicians. So my dad was mathematicians, my two uncles, my dad's brothers, one was civil engineer, he was designing roads, and another one was mechanical engineer working at the shipyard, and my auntie was accountant. So I kind of saw them as a role model of having a really good and interesting job. With all honesty, at that age, I was 18 when I kind of made that decision. I didn't know if I really want to be a civil structural engineer. I think that passion developed later on in a career. Once I graduated. Well, even during the university, I've realized I really loved solving problems, I really loved technical drawings, and really until I went to work and start seeing that what I'm designing then is build. And I could follow that through. That's where the really passion ignited in me. So maybe it's not like a typical career that somebody dreamed about being an engineer from the very young age, but what it does show is that you don't have to have everything sorted when you die young. And choosing a path in engineering can be very successful and rewarding. I never dreamed that I will get to the point where I am now. I've never dreamed I will be working for international companies, traveling around the world, living in different countries. So I would definitely recommend to give it a try, even though if somebody doesn't feel like that's what they want to do.
[00:07:38] Speaker D: And what's been the most interesting engineering project that you've completed?
[00:07:42] Speaker A: So that's really a difficult question, Emma, because beauty about engineering and project is every project is different and at different stages of the career. I had the privilege to work on, for example, demolition and building a huge office building in the middle of Edinburgh city center, which then few years later when I travel in a bus, I could proudly say to a friends and family, look, this is the ten story building I've designed through the career. As I said, it was very interesting. I've worked on offshore platforms. I think at the time I was in my thirty s and that was one of the biggest challenges, it was taking engineering into a next level.
I've worked on the very impressive project to mountain crane replacement on a platform and well, the engineering was very difficult, but also trying to figure out how we're going to do it right. Everything on the offshore platform is delivered by a boat and pickup by the crane. And so it was super interesting. I work with very subject matter expert, very intelligent and knowledgeable people, which I've learned and I love that another great project. I lived in States and I was a subject matter expert on 2.5 billion refinery extension and we were using modularization so modules been designed in India. So I had opportunity to travel to India and work with the engineering office. Then modules were fabricated in Thailand, then they were shipped to us. So all of that phases I would say it was super fascinating to be a part of, to work with the international companies and international engineers at the time. But any project is so unique that I found it always fascinating.
[00:09:54] Speaker D: So you have a lot of international experience and for any engineer sort of starting out, I mean, what kind of advice would you give to anyone who wants to sort of begin start an international career?
[00:10:08] Speaker A: I would say go for it. The biggest challenge is people hold themselves back, they don't take the opportunity they feel, especially females. I found it with myself and I found it with all the females I'm mentoring. Give yourself the opportunity and look for those opportunities and be patient. I tried for example, to get to international Company for over five years and it was not happening. I was getting really frustrated till one day I met a person who helped me get the connections. Also networking, getting involved in the external industry practice or organizations where you can get a connections and you can make that connections and people are always willing to help. But I would say definitely put yourself out there. I think this is the most scary and could be limiting to your career.
[00:11:08] Speaker D: And are there any particular skills that someone who is starting out as an engineer might need to nurture?
[00:11:15] Speaker A: So that's a really good one. I would say definitely communication being on the top of the new technologies, skills like software skills, adaptability. I would say all those soft skills they don't teach you at school, right? At the engineering school they do teach you how to design things, but really how to be a practical about it. I would say also it's really good to get a different experiences. So if somebody is working in the office and the designing, put yourself out there and get an assignment on the site, on a construction site, on a building. So the understanding of the whole project, from the conceptual to the design to the construction and then commissioning, the understanding of the whole process really, really helps through the career, through the engineering and yeah, the soft skills, leading without authority, right. Don't be afraid that if you are not a manager, if you are not a director, you can still lead the teams, you can still learn those skills and utilize them on your day to day basis.
[00:12:28] Speaker D: Could you tell us a bit about your mentoring experience, Magda? It is on your LinkedIn profile and I understand that you mentor graduates.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Yes, not only graduates. So I come across mentoring late in my career and I really think that if that happened earlier, I can have a much much better experience in the engineering. So I'm very passionate about mentoring, sharing the knowledge, using a coaching techniques to help people figure out how to approach certain situations. I'm not only mentoring graduate, but I'm also mentoring people in mid career. Very devoted in my company to mentor females especially because it is a very very challenging environment and there are certain things we face or we go through that sharing those experience helps others within their journey and their career. For example, the things I'm coming across during the mentoring females is how usually at the meetings in this environment is male dominated. So you might be the only one. Right. Most of the people are outside of the comfort zone because others don't look like you. Right, there could be a lots of alpha males in the room are very confident, loud. So how to help females get their voice out there? How to help females feel that their voice is very valued, that the knowledge is valued, that their opinion is valued and they should be able to express that at any meeting or in any environment. I had to learn that myself by trial and error because I didn't have a mentor. So I really loved working and helping in that space. Also helping people to talk about through their career development, but especially at certain point of going back to females struggles, maybe in engineering is for example, when I become a mom and came back to work after maternity leave, there was no room provided for me. I was working on a refining plant and I had to have the courage to go and have a conversations with my supervisor and said well, this is what I need, I'm still breastfeeding, I need a room to be able to express, I need a fridge. And many females might feel embarrassed about it. I felt like my family is so important to me and I really need to do it and put myself out there and result were amazing, right? Everything has been provided and it wasn't unwillingness, it was more about lack of knowledge, maybe of the men managers who didn't have to go through that situation. So it was a little bit about education, right, this is what I need and I would have that conversation. So I had some females who were coming back from maternity leave, another example, and I could share those experiences. Another one was I've been missed opportunity to be promoted because it's been assumed that I'm going to be a young mom. Well, not that young, but new mom and I'm going to be too busy, I want to have a promotion. So again I had to challenge those ways of thinking and say well, let's not assume that that's what's going to happen, let's have that conversation because maybe I would like to get the promotion and I will be able to do it. And the result I was and my family moved to US. And again it was about having that conversation. So now in my leadership role, what I do try is not to make an assumption, right? And help those females be confident and have that conversation and help them how you can frame those conversations, which I'm really passionate about because I still feel that we as a society have a really long way to go. And education conversations sharing those examples can really go a long way and help new generations to make engineering more attractive to females. Because it is really amazing career.
[00:17:00] Speaker D: That's a very good insight, Magza, being a working mother in the industry. And how old are your children now?
[00:17:06] Speaker A: They are still very young. So I started, I would say quite late in my life. So my son is six and a half and my daughter is four.
[00:17:16] Speaker D: And do you have flexible working with regards to supporting your family? Do you achieve work life balance?
[00:17:24] Speaker A: Yes, and this is another thing, I had to make those choices. I was in a role previously which was not giving me that flexibility and I had to make a really hard decision, was important to me and I choose the family. However, that played brilliantly. I'm in a much better place now. I have very high level job, I'm still successful in my career, but I got lots of flexibility, so I'm working from home and I do need to travel. So my husband's been very supportive and obviously it needs some planning when I travel. But the work flexibility as a working mom really helped me. I wouldn't say get a work life balance, but definitely being able to enjoy both focus on the work but also being devoted and focus on a mother and focus on the children.
[00:18:30] Speaker D: Magda, do you have any further advice to give to female engineers who are wanting to start a family but also they enjoy their career and perhaps wanting to broach that with their line manager or thinking about family planning?
[00:18:46] Speaker A: I would say what would help me is to be very honest and transparent with the manager right. And not being afraid to say what you need, what your plan is going to be. One doesn't exclude another. You can have a family and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. You can have a family. You can be a successful mother and you can be also very successful professional individuals. It's all about integration and all about support, your partner support. I think for me, having my husband supporting my career and understanding the importance of it, it was really helpful. But also have that courage to speak and align with your managers and assume that most likely it's just maybe lack of knowledge if they can see any barriers and don't get upset about it, just work through it and have a very honest conversations.
Because I love being a mom. I'm very devoted mom, all my free time I spend with my children, but at the same time, I love working. Right. I love leading a teams and I would say that even my career bluesome since I've been a mom.
I learned so much from my children about the leadership, about compromising, about finding the solutions, which works for everybody, that I feel like I got a better leader and my career really took off since I've been a mom. I remember very early stages, I had to drop my two kids to daycare, which was heartbreaking at the time, and they would have attention, they wouldn't want to put a clothes on. And I knew I need to be at 08:00 at the very important meeting and you can feel that your blood pressure is raising. I had to find the ways okay, how to calm myself down, how to ground myself, how to understand where are they and how can I help them to get those clothes on so I can do what I'm going to do. And I've noticed that with my children, obviously, I did lose a patience now and then. But what I did notice and what I did learn is the calmer I am, the faster they would cooperate with me, the easier it would be for me to get through them and achieved what I needed to achieve for that moment. And I start utilizing that at work. Right. There is various situations where you are at the heat of discussions, and it's so easy to get confrontational.
Your blood pressure raise up, you start feeling in the flight mode, run or fight.
But those situations with my children help me to manage my own emotions and become a better negotiator as well. And I guess that's another thing, is I've really learned how to negotiate by negotiating with my children. Another very interesting situation. I took my little girl climbing.
She was three at the time, and she really wanted like a rock climbing. We took her friend, who was very scared. My girl is very brave, and just watching them, how they work together, right. How she show her and encourage her and how they climb together made me think we as a leader should be doing the same. Climbing together, helping each other.
The innocent really was bringing me back to the core value of being a leader and the value of the support and seeing the other girl how quickly, because of the help, because of the support, she built her confidence. Again, that could translate into a work. Right. Having that mentor, having that sponsor, somebody who will say, hey, it's okay. It's okay to stretch yourself, it's okay to go in an area where you are scared of going.
It's okay to take a job where you feel, oh my God, I'm not fitting 100%, I'm not fitting 80%. It's okay if you have the willingness and power to go. So those situations, if you are really observant, can really help your leadership skills. You don't have to go to the big courses to learn. You just need to observe and work with your children.
And even if I look at my career since I've been a mother, my career really progress faster than before, and maybe because I do have to balance better. And when I'm at work, I'm really at work and I'm really giving 100% or 200% of myself at work. But then when I'm with the children, I have a time to disconnect realigned and then be fresh for the new challenges.
[00:23:36] Speaker D: That's really fascinating to know. Magda now, with regards to your career, what do you particularly enjoy about it?
[00:23:44] Speaker A: Emma the biggest part I enjoy now is to working with other engineers, helping them solve the problems, but also helping them with their career. Helping find the skills they may need to move forward, finding them, sharing my experiences. This is the biggest. I still love projects. I do have the soft spot I love to put a hat on and hard boots and gold to the refining or chemical plants or any other manufacturing plants and have conversations with people seeing the project being built. But I think at this point, working with younger engineers and inspiring them is the most rewarding part of my job.
[00:24:29] Speaker D: I'm going to ask you a question with regards to innovation in engineering.
Have you worked on an innovative project or perhaps developed an innovative idea?
[00:24:42] Speaker A: I've never been involved in like R and D or innovative, but definitely applying innovative ideas into the engineering, especially in the early phases of my career, was always of interest. I am a bit of a geek. I love new technologies. I'm always looking into 3D printing for the concrete, how we can better and sustainable build our plants, our roads, our structures. I'm really pushing my teams now who are working with me to think about that right, how we can better, more innovative way of doing stuff and obviously more sustainable. As a mom and a female, I'm very strong about our environment and partially that's why I'm now in the food industry to nourish the world in a sustainable way. I'm working for the company where sustainability and innovations are top priority. But personally, I wouldn't say that I've worked on any, but I'm definitely now leading the teams who are.
[00:25:52] Speaker D: And how do you implement sustainability in your engineering projects?
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Madda so we are looking at different ways of reusing the energy for our productions. We are also developing bioplants where we are using all our waste to then transform it and be applied somewhere else. So I would say the whole supply chain we are redesigning and thinking to minimize the waste and how we can use the waste, how we can use the plastic, for example, and reuse it to others. So we are doing lots of joint ventures and studies, especially in Europe, and partnering with other major companies who are seeing the same problems and how we can reuse those bioproducts to use for the future.
[00:26:51] Speaker D: I want to ask you a question as well about the loss of biodiversity, which is a significant issue globally. Can engineers somehow make a difference to this in their designs by say, like working with landscape architects, for instance?
[00:27:05] Speaker A: Absolutely, we should. Partnering with architects, I would say architects has primarily lead on designing the architectural space, civil, structural, generally, engineers can support that. But I would say even thinking, even in my company we were looking into inclusive facilities. And I gave you the example earlier. When I work in the refining plant, there was no inclusive facility for mothers. But we still have in the world manufacturing plants, for example, where there is no even toilets for females, there is no lockers, there is no showers. So I think we as the engineers could have massive impact thinking about those things, thinking how we can be more inclusive in our design, how we can be inclusive in our work environment to attract females and make their workplace more pleasurable.
[00:28:05] Speaker D: I just want to expand on that point you've made, Magda, with regards to what more can be done to attract young girls and women into the industry and engineering profession.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Firstly, we should be showing more models, female models, right?
When you're a little girl, you're looking up and I don't remember when I was young, I saw many female engineers on TV, on interviews or sharing their project or sharing their work, what they've been doing, celebrating those females, architects and engineers rewards.
And I'm doing that going to schools. I went to my son's school, he asked me to mummy, could you come and share your work? Because I would like to be an engineer and even though he's obviously a male, there's lots of girls and we made together a board and I showed how fascinating it could be that I was flying a helicopter, that I was doing this, I showed some fine photos. So that's one part to encourage a younger and plant that seed that this could be amazing. But I think in overall there is a lot of education which needs to happen. There needs to be a cultural change, how males perceive females in the engineering and be more inclusive, but also ask females to support each other and really reaching out to those younger ones and helping them. Because also there's big statistics. Female get into engineering, but when they hit them mid career, when they're trying to have the family, that's the hardest. And they dropped out. So I think there is more support, even government support for maternity leave, paternity leave, share it, there still lots could be really done to help that.
[00:30:03] Speaker D: So you're a fellow member of the Women's Engineering Society, a member of the EDI Specialist Interest group like myself.
What changes would you like to see over the next five to ten years with regards to the EDI agenda and women in engineering?
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Well, definitely I'm all about numbers, right? So I really would like to start seeing increased at each level because one thing is to bring females in into the industry, another very different is to keep them and to promote them. I really would like to start seeing more females in leadership roles also gender gap pay to be basically eliminated. I know in the UK we are quite lucky that governments requires especially the bigger organizations to share the gender gap. But what strikes me is that there is still gender, I think at this just basically we shouldn't be even talking about it. It should be really equal pay which would encourage females to work in a really tougher environments than maybe more female orientated professionals. So definitely from the increase of intake female into engineering mid roles and the high roles, like directors levels, I would love to see increase in that space.
[00:31:36] Speaker D: You have such a diverse background in the engineering profession and also strong leadership skills being director as well. Do you have a few last words to other engineers or younger people starting out a career in engineering?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Try to be a leader from the early stages of your career, not a boss, right? For me, being a leader is to work with people, be a servant leader, so give back whatever you get. But also, I guess, and recently we've been discussing that a lot in my company, the impostor syndrome is we all go through it. Don't let your fear hold you back. Go for it. Because what the worst that could happen is, if not this time, it might happen the next time. For me, impostor syndrome can happen to anybody and it happens to all of us at different intensity. It's nothing else than the fear, the fear of unknown, the fear of failure, the fear of putting yourself out there. And for me, it always happened in the biggest turns in my career, right? So first it was when I decided to move from Poland, the country I knew to live in Scotland, where I had a barrier of language. I thought I could speak English, but I really struggled with the accent. So that was the first one. But I didn't let myself not go and not try.
And it's been successful. I'm not saying that it was easy, but it ended up being very successful. Another big turn in the career was when I decided to move into oil and gas, right, and work on an offshore platform. For a young female in the engineering to make that decision, it was very frightening, I need to say. But again, I had always better vision where I want to go, what I want to do, and that vision was helping me through those big turns in my career. And I believe everybody, and female as well, have female and males have those moments that basically call imposter, when you feel like you don't fit in, you are not good enough, you're going to be find out that you are not as good as you thought or not as good as they think. We all have that. It's just how do you manage it? How do you find a support, have your support system, your mentor, your coach, maybe even your husband? For me, my husband recently has been the biggest support because he would remind me and ground me back, say, you know what, few years ago you were saying the same things and look, where are you now? Look what you've achieved.
Those little worlds are helping. I would say we all have it because it's nothing else than just the fear of unknown. And some people have it stronger, some less, but we all have it. And I definitely experienced that. In my career, I would just say be persistent and have a bigger goal. The goal which is bigger than you and the kind of North Star which will guide you. And it's like, right, okay, I want to get there. And I'll persevere through those moments and then everybody, and especially myself, it was getting easier and easier and easier and easier. And within the career later, it was happening faster as well. But I always had, where do I want to go? What do I want to achieve? Who I want to inspire something bigger than myself, helping me saying, right, no, I'm going to go through it and I'm not going to let it stop me. And maybe it's easy for me to say, but the things do happen. Sometimes they happen by coincidence, sometimes they happen because you drive your career or specific interest. But I would say be open, be adaptable and be hopeful and you will be surprised where the career can take you. I really hope going in the future, we will create an environment where we all can feel valuable, that we adding a value, that we all can have fulfilling careers, that there is the understanding that more diverse team you have, and I'm talking about various diversity, age diversity, right. Diversity is not only female male. It's different experiences, different countries, different languages, different upbringing. Those have massive impact on the decision making and innovation. I think it's crucial for innovation to have those diverse teams with the broader mindset, with people who can challenge each other. Otherwise we will continue going in the same direction, also having diverse teams and the teams who truly believe in sustainability and making our this planet needs to serve. My dream is that my children, my children's children, my children children will still have this amazing planet to live in. And we all, as engineers, can really help governments and society to see that and work towards it. That is going to be a beautiful place for decades to come. This is constructive voices.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Well, another fascinating interview in our Females in Focus series. Emma talking to Magda there about her career journey, and I think just to pick up on something she talked about, particularly at the end there, talking about impostor syndrome and something which I think it's well documented that women often, or certainly women will talk about having suffered impostor syndrome more than men will perhaps talk about it. But I'm not sure necessarily that men suffer from impostor syndrome any less. It's just like everything we don't talk about it, pete but it's a big one, isn't it? With people feeling know, I shouldn't be doing this, I'm not good enough to do this. And actually you need then those people to empower you and say, no, absolutely, you are on the right route, you are good enough to be doing this and you have a bright future ahead of you.
[00:37:58] Speaker C: Yeah, without the shadow, without him. I would agree with you there. I think it's a human trait.
It's nothing got to do with your gender.
When you're someone who is going into a situation where you haven't been before, and yes, you've had a certain amount of training, or yes, you have a qualification, but then you're thrown into a real world situation.
Obviously, if it's a group or a different country that you're going to, and you've different cultures and different aspects floating around, you can absolutely doubt yourself and you can certainly start rethinking. Should I be here? And why am I here? And it was a really honest and open expression of emotion there and a true insight into what's it like to be a female coming from a different country, working in a different country with a different language and how that made her, you know, fair play to Magda. That was really, really good to hear and very insightful to hear how she managed it and where it took her. Imposter Syndrome, it's a really cool word that's come out over the last few years, but I think it's an emotion that I was experiencing for a lot, an awful lot of my career, and it's how you do manage that and it's really got to do with who's around you and who helps you get past that. But I also think it's good to be grounded from time to time and kind of sometimes we can kind of be the big fish in our own little pond. But then when we enter into a different network of people or a different sense of environment we get a little dose of reality that there are other people out there that are probably more educated or understand that situation better or more qualified than other people that you've been dealing with. And that's when the confidence can get a bit rattled. But that's life and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And I look back on moments in my own career when, like, I can remember, how am I going to get this job done? How am I going to make this job work? I did make them work and I did get them done, and it did give me the experience to take forward with me. So I really enjoyed then as well the fact that Magda then discussed how becoming a mother has also massively helped her in her career. I really could relate to it because I'm a father and I've got three daughters and there's no doubt about it, the skills that I've had to learn and the skills that I have to work on a daily basis really do help me in my career. Negotiation skills and just dealing with people in different situations.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: Well, you know what, Pete? I don't think I've ever heard anybody say it, certainly not in such an eloquent way as Magda did, about how she feels that her becoming a mum and the experiences there and kind of all the stuff with juggling school runs and all the different things you need to do, the organizational skills and the compromises. You mentioned how that's made her a better leader. I don't think I've ever heard anyone put it in those terms before, but it absolutely makes sense.
[00:40:49] Speaker C: Yeah, it does. Of course it makes sense. And we draw from our life skills to guide us in decisions that we make. And sometimes you can quite often tell a bit about a person's lifestyle by how they are in terms of their business life as well. The reality of every professional's life. There's times when you're running to a meeting and you're trying to organize kids to be collected or brought to a training session or a ballet session or whatever it is that's going on in someone's life. And then you got to also then open the door at the meeting and walk in all professional and go, okay, hi, how are you? I'm ready here for the meeting. So it was cool stuff. And outside of that, also, what a brilliant interview and what a great insight into what it's like to be a female in our industry, the construction industry. So. Well done, Magda. It was a super interview. And well done, Emma as well. Really well conducted.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: Absolutely. And there are already a few episodes that we've published and more to come on our focus on females episodes, so well worth listening to those as well, because some really, really good insights, different perspectives. That's what we're all about here on Constructive Voices. And Pete, we'll talk again next time.
[00:41:58] Speaker C: Absolutely. Steve Chat, you there, my man.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: And that's all for this episode of Constructive Voices. Please take a moment to share it with others who may find it interesting. Follow or subscribe to get the latest episodes automatically on your favorite podcast app and rate and review the podcast if you can. You can also listen to the latest episode by saying, alexa, play Constructive Voices.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: Podcast here's Constructive Voices here's, the latest episode.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: And on our website where there's lots more information, too. That's constructive voices.com. Don't forget the until next till time. Next time. Thanks for listening. You're really helping us build something.
