Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: People with news, views and expert interviews.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: Hi and welcome to Constructive Voices. I'm Steve Randall and I'm joined, as always, by Pete the builder Peter Finn. So Pete back with another episode of Constructive Voices and another one of our focus on females episodes. Today, another female, but a completely different story. As with the whole series, it's been fascinating getting the different perspectives.
[00:00:28] Speaker D: Yeah, it's been really good, Steve. Emma has done a super job and the interviewees that we've had have been excellent. So this is another really good interview with Helen Ramsey. The enthusiasm that Helen has comes across within the first couple of seconds of the interview. She is a lady who has really committed herself to her craft. She's a member of a huge amount of boards and she has been involved in many different aspects of her craft and is certainly someone who really does champion the idea of learning from many people and the advantages that come with working in a group environment and then how you can help other people and then how other people can help you in that group environment. So, super interview. And again, Helen is a female in construction who has worked internationally. She studied abroad. So I always find these stories fascinating and the braveness that people show, the bravery that females within our industry have shown by just moving to different parts of the world and the experiences that they've gained from doing that and then taking them with them throughout their career. But she didn't stay in construction then. She's still obviously working in engineering, but she's moved into the medical industry as well, which I think is fascinating. And it's a real example of how when people say they work in construction, immediately, people always think of cold building sites and hardship and labor and all that type of stuff and that's not the case.
You really are not limiting yourself when you get into construction industry. In fact, you're actually just opening up a huge network for yourself.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: Okay, well, let's hand over to Emma Nicholson and Helen and we'll hear the chat and then we'll come back and talk.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: I am a principal Sustainability project manager and Chartered Environmentalist. I work for a UK national multidisciplinary consultancy and have worked in the built environment for over 23 years. I'm an associate fellow of the Women's Engineering Society and previous board trustee of also the Women's Engineering Society. And currently I'm the EDI. Specialist interest group member for the Women's Engineering Society. So I also founded in 2011 Women in Sustainable construction and property LinkedIn group.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: My name is Helen Ramsay. My degree is in chemical engineering. I started out at British Steel as an environmental engineer, then I worked in water consultancy and then I've been in medical devices for 21 years. I'm currently a nonexecutive director at a logistics company. I'm working a portfolio career. So lots of different parallel voluntary roles. I'm a trustee. I'm also a mentor. I'm a fellow of the Institute of Chemical Engineers and the Women's Engineering Society, and I'm really excited about today.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Thanks very much, Helen. It's really great to meet you. I understand you've worked in environmental engineering. Was there anyone in particular that inspired that career route? And if you could tell us a bit more about your project experience and your early career development.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So I don't think there was one specific person who inspired me, but when I was very young, I joined the Worldwide Fund for Nature and I've been a passionate supporter of them ever since. I really connected with the work they were doing for the different species and the endangered species. And so when I took my engineering degree, I was keen to work more with the environment, and an opportunity came up when I graduated to work at British Steel. My role there was to put in ISO 14,001, which is an international environmental management standard, and that was across three tube mills at British Steel Corby. Hartlepool and Stockton and Broadwell works near Birmingham. That was a very interesting experience, especially fresh out of college. It was very much a male environment and very much traditional. But it was exciting to work in the space for environmental work there because it was new and people were understanding more about it and trying to engage. So there was a lot of sort of cultural change involved in focusing on more clear targets for emissions, effluent, et cetera, to make sure that the plants were as efficient as they possibly could be in an environmental context.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Yes, and indeed, the need for more environmental engineers is really important for our industry to help projects and I guess buildings as well, in terms of achieving net zero.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Absolutely.
It's one of the biggest challenges of our age, is climate change, and we do need more environmental engineers. I remember when I did my role in the water consultancy, I was doing modeling of drainage systems for housing developers and it was all about modeling for the one in 100 year flood, et cetera. And of course, these events are happening more and more frequently now and we need to be able to change the way we kind of work and live to be able to manage and also to reduce our impact on the environment. So I absolutely think it's.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Indeed. And also, I noted I've had a look at your LinkedIn profile, Helen, and I'd just like to know a bit more about your team building skills with engineers. You mentioned delivering international engineering capital projects. Would you be able to expand on that a little bit?
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
So I loved the people side of engineering ever since I started, so working in teams and then progressing to managing teams was very enjoyable and great fun. I believe engineers are great problem solvers. They're very genuine people and they're fun to work with. So when I was working in medical devices, we were having to bring together engineers from many different disciplines, mechanical, electrical, software. So it was critical to be able to help find ways to get them to work together, collaborate together, problem solve together and innovate together so that we could deliver new products to market in significant numbers so that people can kind of manage their condition using them. Yeah, it was really exciting working with these different engineers and bringing those capital investment projects to fruition.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: And you've also achieved board level status, I think you mentioned you're a trustee or have been a trustee, so I just wondered how you acquired those skills and if you could tell us a bit more about that experience.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Yes. I'm currently a nonexecutive director on a board and I'm also a trustee, as you say. I'm a trustee for an engineering charity to make awards for relief of poverty using engineering means. So I think in both of those cases, having the breadth of knowledge of working with multidisciplinary engineers, of managing a large team in a technical environment, looking at technical challenges in different ways, understanding how to motivate people. How? To create consistent and sustainable change so that we adapt to the environment that we're in. All of those skills have meant that I've been able to move into a board level role and do advisory work on that basis as well. It's very rewarding, but it is quite tough and quite a lot of responsibility.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: So you have to juggle a few balls in terms of organizing a diary and that kind of thing with regards to your trustee work. So in terms of a sort of typical month, how many days would you be doing sort of trustee work?
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Oh gosh, that's a tricky one. So I think maybe sort of three days a month I do a trustee work, I do a lot more with my non exec work because I'm doing a lot more consultancy and advisory work for them at the moment. And then I balance it with these other voluntary roles. I mentor a chief executive for a charity and I do some It work for a refugee charity and it's just trying to fit it all in is tricky and sometimes it's more and sometimes it's a little bit less depending.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: And also I picked up that you have done some mentoring.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Have you actually been a mentee yourself, passionate about mentoring? I think it's a fantastic thing. So yes, I did have mentoring and it started, I think kind of when I was about maybe mid career and I had a very inspirational mentor who helped me and I went up and asked them to be my mentor. So I'm very much an advocate for people to feel confident about being able to do that because they were able to give me advice and ideas that someone at my level I just didn't see. But they could see that and they could see how I could adapt and kind of build on the skills I had to be able to take advantage of opportunities. It was so helpful. And they then became an advocate for me in different contexts too. And then in answer to the second part, yes, absolutely. I'm a mentor. I mentor about ten people at the moment, mostly women in Stem, but not all. I also mentor young male engineers. And also I mentioned I've currently been mentoring a chief executive at a local charity. And it's so fascinating how much they teach me in return. But it's all about just offering a sounding board and helping people kind of work through things in their own way and be listened to.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: I agree, Helen. I think mentoring can be incredibly rewarding. I think you can get a lot out of it by seeing your mentees development as well. Just in terms of your earlier career and going way back to when you started out studying, where did you actually study, and what Stem skills did you learn to get to where you are now?
[00:10:05] Speaker B: I studied at Cambridge University. I did my masters in chemical engineering there. The course that I did at the time was two years of general engineering and then two years of chemical engineering, which stood me in very good stead for the career that I then ended up doing. So I switched industry effectively three times within my early career, so from steel to water to medical devices. And it was those technical and problem solving skills that I learned on my course that I was able to bring into each of those different roles. Even though the industries were very different, a lot of the skills that I used were very similar, and I was able to build on those and learn and get experience in how to make those more effective.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Thank you. And also, with regards to the earlier part of your career, what was the most interesting engineering project that you completed?
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Okay, so my early career, I think the most interesting project was when I was designing and building a weir over near Peterborough. And again, it was to manage drainage so that there was no flooding from a new development. And it was complicated because I had to do kind of to prevent reverse flow. So I had these flaps on this weir, and then eventually, a few years later, I went back and saw it in its actual kind of completed state, which gave great pleasure. It was an actual physical thing that I'd managed to do, and that was very early on, and it always has remained. Something that's been a wonderful part of engineering is be able to actually physically see the thing that you make, and it makes such a difference.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Absolutely. I think that's really incredible to see an engineering project that you've participated in and to kind of see that it's had the benefit with regards to your involvement in that it must be really rewarding to see that as evidence.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:59] Speaker A: Just a further question in terms of going back to mentioned sue, your earlier career for any young engineers starting out, are there particular skills that someone might need as an engineer that they will need to nurture?
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yes, I think for me, the top two are teamwork and problem solving in equal measure. I think it was very much when you're studying in your degree, sometimes it can be kind of a lot of technical work that you're working through. But that whole piece around working together and doing design projects together and doing kind of safety studies together, et cetera, that really helps when you go into the world of work, because you can't do engineering just on your own. You have to work with others, you have to be able to collaborate. And also, I think you have to be resilient for many different reasons because things change and you don't always get what you intend. When you start on a project, it's important to be able to adapt and to not take things personally and understand that things will happen, mistakes will happen, you'll make mistakes. I certainly did. And then you can come through that and learn from it and then move on together as a team and build something better next time and beyond.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: Do you prefer working alone, Helen, or do you prefer working with a team in terms of developing a solution in engineering?
[00:13:22] Speaker B: I think there's a place for both. I think I love working with people, but I do need time to think. And I can often find if I'm surrounded by people all the time, I just need time to kind of step back and just work through things, just to understand cause and effect. Go back to root cause, try to give yourself the time to not be too focused on the symptoms that you're being told about at that time, but just to try and work back to understand why something's happened. But I love the interaction with other engineers, particularly different backgrounds, different ideas, different perspectives. It makes the whole process of problem solving more fun and also much more innovative. The ideas people have that you can build on together are just fascinating. I think if we work in as.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: A team, innovation in engineering is very important. And I just wondered if you'd actually worked on innovative initiative, perhaps either alone or jointly with members of your team.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. I think there's lots of different ways that we've done innovation. And working 21 years in medical devices, I was lucky there was opportunities to do that, whether it was right near the beginning where I learnt the lean six sigma approach, or right towards the end where I was managing a department. And I think it's that one that I'd like to talk about a little bit more because it was through my role of being a manager of a large team that was expanding where we were taking on new people. I was in a position where I was able to influence the culture of that group. And through my work, I'm a lead governor with South Central Ambulance Service. And through my work with them, I found a way that was very different from the traditional engineering route, where people were very carefully listened to, very much gently, kind of included in conversations, and where people struggled to articulate their point. There was a lot of patience in listening to people in a way that I just hadn't necessarily come across in a fast paced, kind of very outcome focused kind of engineering team, whereas I was able to take that approach to my department and help to shape the way we recruited. So we recruited people who were very different. Different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different gender, all different aspects of diversity were part of the idea around creating a culture that people could feel supported in and feel included in. And so the way we did recruitment changed.
We learnt by reaching out to organizations such as Stem Returners, who were excellent at training both myself but also my line managers in how to be more inclusive in their recruitment process. And then also, once people joined us, there was much more focus on helping people to feel that their points were valued and that even if they were new and they didn't have their vocabulary yet, maybe to kind of convince people that people were still interested and that they wanted to hear new ideas and that it was a fresh take on it. And it was really up to them to translate that into our vocabulary, not to the individual coming in. So it felt a real step change and it was wonderful to see that people stayed. It was great.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: That's brilliant. In terms of the biggest engineering challenge that you have possibly faced in your career, what has that been?
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Again? There's lots to choose from. I worked abroad for a while as an engineer. That was quite challenging.
I took on my first role in a very male dominated environment at British Steel. That was challenging. But I think the one that sticks in mind is when I was working with a supplier who was based abroad and I was flying out there for the first time, I hadn't kind of met them before very much. They'd come to the UK to have an initial conversation, but I was going out there because there were problems and my team were facing difficulties in being able to be heard and have their kind of insights into the design listened to. So it was quite a challenging environment to walk into. But I knew I had to find a way to talk to their senior engineering staff at the supplier to find a new way of working so that everybody could work together. And it was there where I discovered that there was a bit of impostor syndrome in there because I was wondering, oh gosh, why would they listen to me? What do I know? I don't know these people. But I had a good team with me and this whole kind of point around male allyship is really key. I think there was another engineering manager there who was very supportive of me and also it was really that the problems that the supplier were facing were very similar to problems that we faced in our own kind of context where it was just around collaboration and it wasn't happening naturally. But bizarrely, the mechanical team weren't talking to the electrical team, so they were physically making something that was coded such that it would crash. So that was just unhelpful. So by talking together with their senior engineering management team, I was helping them to understand we had to do more of the discussions cross department effectively with all the different stakeholders in on a regular basis to make sure none of this kind of got off onto the wrong foot that we were able to map out and plan these things and then test them together regularly and so that we could work together on the solutions that made a big difference. And fortunately, it meant that the team could work more cohesively, both between the different functions of engineering, but also between our team as the customer or client and the supplier team, so that it became much more of a collaboration and people felt able to challenge and discuss, but also to kind of constructively find ideas that fix stuff. So, yeah, I think that was my biggest challenge.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: So you have international experience, helen, whereabouts abroad did you work?
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Gosh, well, I've worked abroad in different places. So from the United States to Canada to Germany to Italy? Yeah, all over, different places. I think engineering is brilliant for that.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Goodness, that's brilliant. So where was your first position abroad?
[00:19:34] Speaker B: In the States? Yes, we have a sister site. We did at my last company, we had a sister site based in the west coast of America, so I spent three months on an assignment out there.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: Do you have children?
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yes, I have twins.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Oh, twins. My goodness. And how have you found it, being a woman working in the field of engineering and the work life balance? Has it been challenging, sort of managing career and family or I gather you've.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Done it successfully, I'm sure that's very kind.
So, yes, I think it is challenging. I think I was in many ways fortunate, because when I had my twins, it was just before a follow up project in the States. And my then manager knew I had experience of working on that site, on that product, but several years previously, and even though I had young twins at the time, he didn't hesitate in asking if I wanted to take a lead on that project. And I think really that role was quite transformational for my future career. So I felt quite lucky that I was able to have those opportunities even with young children. I think the flexibility that is available now that maybe wasn't available in my mom's generation when she was doing medicine is so important because it gives you that ability to try to be able to kind of manage both in a way that feels right for you. And I think, hopefully, one of the positives out of the pandemic is that, hopefully, it means that there are more flexible opportunities for engineers going forward, that it doesn't have to all be done on site, that you can manage working from home and working on site. And it can be more kind of able to do things remotely rather than having to travel all the time with young children. So yeah, I think it's a tricky balance, but yes, I was lucky that it would work well for me and.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Also just wondered what your thoughts are on attracting more young women into engineering.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: I think this is absolutely critical because we can't solve the problems that we face as a society without including half the population. I think it's so imperative that we can reach young girls to help them see what a good career engineering is. I really do believe that there's more we can do to help both publicize engineering as a whole, but also how fun it is. The fact that you do get to go and travel internationally, the fact you do make stuff that people genuinely need in their lives and that you can do something that is quite innovative and fun and collaborative. You work together. It's not a dirty and old and traditional type environment. It's very much more sort of fast paced and fun. And I think the more we can get into schools and help spread that message and the more as a society we understand that is crucial. I think there needs to be more on TV about engineering, making it sound fun, but also as a female in engineering, I do a lot of work in schools to try to help make it more visible so that people can see people like me and understand that actually it's perfectly possible for them too.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: I agree. I think that's really important. Helen.
And you are also a fellow member of the Women's Engineering Society EDI. Specialist Interest group. I just wondered what changes you'd like to see in the industry in the next five to ten years?
[00:22:59] Speaker B: I think it's important that there's focus on making it attractive to women to come in, but also to keep women in engineering in a way that is beneficial for both them and for companies. So I think more kind of involvement and discussion in the flexibility ideas and flexible working, but also in mentoring, in networking, in kind of podcasts like these, in role models of kind of women who've succeeded in their different engineering disciplines preferably people who look like them. Not just women of a particular type, but all different women in different spheres of engineering. Helping that. And I think the Women's Engineering Society is good at helping all of those things. It identifies barriers. It's working on the PPE initiative at the moment. It provides a network for women engineers to get to know each other. I didn't discover the Women's Engineering Society till quite late in my career. And I encourage a lot of the kind of graduates that I speak to to get involved from the beginning, because it just gives you that kind of external person or people to talk to about some of the things that you face that maybe you don't know quite how to handle. So, yeah, I think there's lots we can do in the next five to ten years.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: I agree. And also there's mentoring as well, provided by the Women's Engineering Society, which is really important. Helen, I read about your profile as well, about partnership with the association of Black and Minority Engineers, and I just would like to know how this develops and if there's been any sort of outcomes of this partnership. It is Black History Month, so I just wondered what your views were on this.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Yes. So when I was in my engineering management role, I was worried that the pool of applicants that were coming forward for our apprenticeship program were not ethnically diverse. And I felt this was a failing on our part of not being able to attract a diverse pool of applicants to what was a really exciting set of kind of roles and opportunities to work. So I reached out because I'd reached out to Stem Returners, who'd helped me very much with the gender balance. I reached out to the association of Black and Minority Ethnic Engineers to see whether there was something we could do together to help change that.
And that's where, as a company, we became a partner with the AFBE. And it meant that we were able to access a lot of the initiatives that they have in place to reach out to different pools of people who may be interested, who may maybe hadn't considered engineering before and that might be tempted by an apprenticeship route. And then also if they needed support in more understanding about what that entails and how they could go about it, that the support was in place to do that. So we put that partnership in place. But then, unfortunately, my career moved on and I moved on to a new role. So I haven't been able to kind of track the outcomes and see just how much difference that made. But it was very exciting and I am hopeful that that provided an opportunity to try and make a step change in the diversity of the applicants we had.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Brilliant. Thanks very much for that. You've had such a diverse and interesting career and international experience as well. I just wondered if you had any thoughts over the next few years that you might be happy to share with our audience on what your next steps might be?
[00:26:31] Speaker B: As a non executive director now, I'm hoping to build my portfolio in that area and move hopefully into becoming a non exec of an engineering company of some sort. I'm also very keen on working in the Femtech space. I am a board advisor for a Femtech startup in Canada and I'd love to get more involved in that area. It's quite new and it's exciting. It's researching conditions that affect women's health that maybe haven't had that research focus or investment in the past, and suddenly now there's a lot more companies getting involved in this space. It's exciting and it's bridging a gap that we really need to do in today's society. So I'm hoping those two sort of aspects will be my kind of future next steps.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: And if someone wanted to find out a bit more about that, is there a particular site that they could sort of research and have a look into?
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Well, that's a good question. I think many of the universities are involved in entrepreneurship for women's tech. There's a Femtech group that are particularly active in London. I think there's also one in Manchester. I don't have the details of the website in London to hand, but I'm sure if they search for that for the UK, certainly there are different initiatives there that are very much, kind of, perhaps in the infancy, but are growing in momentum.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: Finally, it's been such a pleasure to interview you and I just wondered if you had any final thoughts, Helen, in terms of inspiring engineers or younger people starting out in a career in engineering.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: That's a lovely question. So I think really, it's very much about this is a career for the future. I think that, yes, there's AI and yes, it's going to change roles, but engineers, I do believe, will be at the forefront of that. And the challenges that we face as a society, whether it's access to fresh water, whether it's managing with an increasingly different climate, whether it's healthcare challenges with pandemics, et cetera, all of these aspects need engineers, and so I'd really recommend it as something to consider for young people. There's so much opportunities with universities and colleges and local companies to kind of get insights into understanding more about engineering and I just think it's a fantastic career and I'd recommend it to anyone. I think, as a nonexecutive director, I think there is a significant responsibility on kind of boards and company kind of senior leaders to understand more about biodiversity and how their operations impact that. So I would like to see there being more, perhaps, maybe more engineers on these boards to be able to talk about this and build on kind of the technical solutions to help companies be more gentle with the environment, to help companies be more aware of their impact on. The environment, what they can do about it and how they can still continue to operate and do the work that they need to do. To supply products to people, to supply services in the world. I work with to manage transport in a sustainable way, but also to promote the biodiversity of any of the areas that they impact in a way that is meaningful and not just a tick box, but to help really transform the legislation principles into the practicalities of what it means to an individual business. I think that's what I'd like to see. This is constructive voices.
[00:30:05] Speaker C: So, as you said at the beginning, Pete, a really fascinating interview and so many bits that we could pick out of that because just another interesting career, another interesting perspective. I think the bit that I wanted to pick up on, and this was something you mentioned in the introduction to the interview, is how Helen has gone from an engineering role in construction into the medical world. And I imagine we're going to see more and more now those sort of transferable skills both in and out of the construction industry as the roles of being in construction change.
A lot of those things that were traditional construction only roles are now things that will sit across lots of industries. And that's good for construction because it means that people will want to come into construction who have skills, but also for those already working in those roles, it means that if they fancy doing something else for a while, they can go and do it in another industry.
[00:30:57] Speaker D: Yeah, without the shadow of a doubt. And like Helen talks about how she was involved in working with, you know, managing large volumes of water to now she's working with medical aspects that are probably on a much sort of smaller scale in terms of soils, but obviously are absolutely as important or probably even more important, but the principles are still the same. It's great. I love hearing stories of this, I really do. I love the fact that people can adapt and can change and can transition while keeping the same principles, keeping the same ethics, keeping the same using the knowledge that they've had over the years and experiences that they've had to adapt to another completely different industry or completely different life situation. So, really good stuff. Again, great insight into what it's like to be a female coming into a male dominated industry and the challenges that are there and how they had to work around certain situations to get the end result. It's really, really good stuff. So, yeah, again, great interview.
I think it's fair to say, I did say beforehand, the enthusiasm that Helen has, she really is interested in what she does and she certainly is a wealth of knowledge in so many different aspects of engineering. And to still have that fire in our belly and that energy is great to see. And I love that energy and I love that positivity that she has.
[00:32:32] Speaker C: Yeah, and I think the other sort of big thing that I wanted to pick up on was mentorship and how important that is. And Helen's story there, she started out as a mentee, so she benefited from other people's help and advice and support, and she's paying that back by mentoring other people. And I think that whole 360 thing in mentorship is brilliant.
[00:32:55] Speaker D: Yeah, without the shadow, without and look, you will learn so much. And I've done this throughout my life as well. I was an apprentice starting off as well, and then I learned and I earned my trade, I went and then I upskilled by going back to college and then I set up my own business. So I have been an apprentice, I've been an employee, and now I'm an employer and I have my own business. So it's all of those aspects of your career. And I know what it's like to be an employee, so I can understand what it's like to be that person that I'm employing now and again. Helen has done the exact same thing there. She explains know she was a mentee and then she used those experiences to become a mentor and how that helped her be a good mentor and then also how being a mentor actually continues to improve her to this day. And I would totally agree with that as well, because when you explain to somebody how to do something, you actually are rethinking it yourself and you're really kind of retraining yourself as well as training the person. So I really do believe in that style of education. And I really do feel that if you can have a mentor in your life, it can help you really understand what it's like when you hear real life stories and real life situations and examples, how they played out and how someone maybe got over a challenge that was in front of them. Because sometimes when a challenge hits you and you don't have the answer, you kind of can say to yourself, well, how would my mentor have got around this challenge? Or what would they have done? So, great stuff there. And I love seeing people give back as well to the industry and give back to the next generation of people coming true.
I can remember way back in the day, some people in the construction industry used to not do that. They would prefer to withhold the information for their own advantage. But I think that day and age is long gone now. And I think the reality is that people understand that teamwork is so important in any construction project. Like, if you don't have the right team working together with the same objective, you're at a loss straight away. And that can happen in some construction projects. I think we've all been involved, we've all heard of projects where there was conflicts going on between contractors and architects or design team. And it really doesn't help when that's the situation. So teamwork is a huge thing. But I like the way also that Helen said that she likes to be able to work within the team but then also get her own space to be able to work through things in her own head. Again, very honest, and I appreciate that honesty as well, because you do need your own space to be able to come up with some solutions, but then come back into the team group, then again and tie it all together. So, yeah, great stuff. Really honest interview. Again, such a different interview to what we've had in the previous guests on as well. Really good stuff. I actually really love the series and looking forward to hearing some more really positive stories and interesting stories of females in construction. It's been excellent.
[00:36:09] Speaker C: Yeah, too right. And I'm sure we've got lots more things to talk about and well, it's one of those things where it sounds cliched, perhaps, but you can't miss Constructive Voices, not even one episode, because you never know what we're going to be talking about, what you're going to learn. It's always an interesting conversation.
[00:36:28] Speaker D: Every day is a learning day. And every episode of Constructive Voices, you're getting knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. Absolutely.
[00:36:35] Speaker C: Nice one. Talk to you next time, Pete.
[00:36:37] Speaker D: Cheers, Steve. Chat soon.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: And that's all for this episode of Constructive Voices. Please take a moment to share it with others who may find it interesting. Follow or subscribe to get the latest episodes automatically on your favorite podcast app and rate and review the podcast if you can. You can also listen to the latest episode by saying, alexa, play Constructive Voices.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Podcast here's Constructive Voices here's, the latest episode.
[00:37:00] Speaker C: And on our website, where there's lots more information, too, that's Constructive Voices.com. Don't forget the dash. Until next time. Thanks for listening. You're really helping us build something.
