Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews.
This is Jackie de Burca here for Constructive Voices. I'm so excited to bring you the very first of our new initiative, which is local correspondence. These people are really renowned experts in their fields that are more than able to talk about the work that's happening in their various cities and areas. And I couldn't be happier to say that we have a guest on who is an author and has been with us before. She's really wonderful in every way. It's Alexandra Steed. Welcome to Alexandra.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Hi, Jackie. Well, my name's Alexandra Steed. I'm a landscape architect and an urban designer, and I have a practice, a landscape architecture and urban design practice in both London, England and in Vancouver, Canada, that I've just opened. So I've been working and living in London for 20 years, and I've just arrived back in Vancouver and really excited to be here and living and working here as well now.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Fantastic. So we're going to just dive into your knowledge about Vancouver and we're going to talk about this. This will be our first chat about this. Shall revisit that time to time as you find and discover more things that are happening around Vancouver. So this is a growing resource, if you like.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Right? Well, I would say that Vancouver is. It's always one of the most livable cities in the world, so it's incredible that way. It has incredible natural beauty all around the city, within the city. You know, it's placed within an absolutely spectacular setting. And actually, the forefathers of Vancouver established a good park system right from the beginning that safeguarded a lot of the green areas within the city. So there's a beautiful park called Stanley park that was put in place at the same time as the city was established. So, you know, it was always in mind, even though back in those early days there was nature everywhere, they knew that as the city grew and over time with densification, that they would lose that kind of space. So there's always been a really sort of green approach to the city. I think having returned recently to the city after living in London for 20 years, one of the things I've noticed is that I think perhaps there's still a great reliance on the natural beauty and perhaps not in really pushing forward the way some cities that are in more trouble are having to do. So, you know, other places in the world that are dealing with more issues to do with climate change and sea level rising, while it's not as deeply felt in Vancouver yet. I think these are issues that Vancouver is also facing, and it will come up soon. So I think there's been a real push recently with densification in and around the city. And of course, there always needs to be the consideration of housing needs, and, you know, of course that's incredibly important, but at the same time, I don't see a really robust landscape infrastructure being put in place to accommodate that and to, for example, accommodate the extra stormwater that will no longer have anywhere to go once the city is more dense. So I think more thought has to be given to the future situation in Vancouver and making sure that they're preparing themselves accordingly.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: So let's talk about Lexi, what you love about Vancouver, separately to the nature that was there, you know, in a formative time. What kind of buildings are there that you feel like. Like, are really in tune with how you feel things should be? As an urban design specialist, if you like, what are you really proud of in that sense?
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, in terms of urban design, I'd say one of the things that Vancouver has always done very well is to think of densification in a variety of ways. So it wasn't done in a uniform manner where you just have a load of high rises all stuck beside each other. There was always consideration of the walkability of the city and the experience of the pedestrian walking down a street. So, you know, considering what the setbacks are of the buildings, considering perhaps stepping back the building so the experience at the street level isn't overwhelming and intimidating by having a tall tower right beside you. So they've often been very good and thoughtful about considering that pedestrian experience and using a lot of street trees to soften the effects of the buildings and the kind of grit of the city. So there's an awful lot of street trees here that has brought in a huge amount of beauty to the place and just a lot of green in general. So green walls, green roofs. Vancouver always had a huge amount of green roofs. Even it wasn't always really obvious that it was even a roof. So that's been incorporated for years, and people like a wonderful landscape architect named Cornelia Oberlander, who did many wonderful things throughout Canada and also had a really important international presence, too. She was really important in establishing that kind of way of approaching city design, along with an architect named Arthur Erickson, who she worked with closely. So they were quite fundamental in terms of how Vancouver began evolving in that kind of more green direction. And there's been many other people involved, of course, but there are two Names that sort of stick out in my mind as being really signature in Vancouver and about the whole approach to keeping the experience of the place more human and less really overly engineered.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: So it sounds really fantastic, though, that, you know, the backdrop to everything. Well, how about moving forward, what you mentioned about the likes of, like, floods and so on, how is Vancouver set in that situation?
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Well, currently they have a system that's similar to many cities around the world where it's a combined storm sewer system. So in flooding events, you have the sewer system then combining with stormwater and having that flushed out into the bay. So that's something that will take many years to turn around. There is a process in place and, you know, even when I was working with the city more than 20 years ago now, there was. There was sort of the idea that that needed to be addressed and, and many of the engineers I was working with at the time were speaking about that. So they, they knew that had to be addressed. But of course that takes a lot of funding and a huge amount of work to make that happen.
So that, that is an issue. But there's also, as I mentioned earlier, an issue around increasing the density. So there's a big drive to increase density, especially around stations, to get more ridership on the transit lines, which is a great idea.
But along with that densification, I don't see there being a really rigorous approach to how stormwater will be dealt with. So in places where stormwater used to be able to fall onto trees or onto vegetation or even grass, and then able to percolate through the soil naturally and enter the storm system that way, now, of course, those surfaces will be covered and they will not any longer be absorbed by vegetation. So we'll have roof structures, we'll have more pavement area, and there is sort of accommodation to allow a little bit of space for extra stormwater, but not what I think is necessary to meet the growing demands and certainly not the future demands. So I think that's a lot, you know, sort of an opportunity that was lost there. But not to say it can't be worked in. I think there's still opportunity to do that, but we need to do it quite quickly before this densification happens.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: So how long would it take for that densification to actually be completed?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Well, it's happening as we speak.
The legislation, I think, just came in last year, so it's quite new legislation, but there's a lot of drive and a lot of need to build. So, you know, projects are underway already. So I think we Just need to make sure that that green infrastructure and blue infrastructure is then woven very carefully into that new density.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Right now you've been working Obviously in the UK, as you mentioned, for, for 20 years, and you've been based in and around the London area, Essex and so on.
How does this compare with London? Like when you just compare Vancouver and London, you know, side by side.
I know it's a hard one, it's probably like quite a complex question, but what you see sort of pros and cons in both cities. I'm asking a complex question, but looking for a relatively simple answer.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Well, I think, you know, London is. Is dealing with much more challenging situations because of the numerous layers of history in London. I mean, if you look at a cross section, if you were to cut through a street, for example, there's just layers and layers of infrastructure that are located below the surface level. Above the surface level. But, you know, so much of it is hidden. Whereas in Vancouver, because it's a recently new city, it was only incorporated in 1886, I believe. So, you know, it's quite a new city. And before that it was really just forest and first nations people living here. So it's changed a huge amount over the last century. But also because of that, there is a lot of opportunity to incorporate really good practices right from the get go. And a lot of things were done well, I would say, you know, allowing green space and green trees and that sort of thing within city streets. Now that's going to be more difficult to do. And I just, I think it's a little bit disappointing that maybe Vancouver isn't being really assertive about its commitment to keeping that legacy of greenness, you know, of keeping that legacy of living within nature, of living within the forest, and really sort of capitalizing on that and showing the rest of the world how it can be done. So I think at this moment, maybe an opportunity has been lost.
Like I said earlier, I think that's something that can be regained fairly quickly. I don't think it's too late, but I do think more energy needs to be put into that. Whereas a place like London, they're dealing with the effects of flooding much more, sort of violently, I would say. Although here too, you know, a lot of terrible events have happened just in the last year while I've been living here in terms of flooding. Loads of people have been hit hard by that. But in London, it's an even bigger issue, and it's more difficult to turn things around once you've already gone down that Route of densification and really impermeable surfaces, lack of green roofs, lack of green spaces on the street, lack of permeable paving and that sort of thing. So it's much more harder to undo those errors than to do it right in the first place. So, you know, I'm just really hoping that Vancouver can just continue to do it right rather than making, you know, mistakes that they then have to undo in a few years time.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a fascinating answer. And I guess going back to the situation right now that you've, you know, obviously pointed out and flagged about Vancouver, what can be done or what will have to be like redone regarding this densification if the right people decide to listen to you or presumably you're not the only person making this observation. Of course not.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: No, of course not. No. There's a lot of people that are concerned about the green and blue infrastructure throughout the city now that this new legislation has come in. So, for example, I think it's incredibly important that there is a public realm and park strategy that is comprehensive throughout the city. And so while the densification is occurring, that green spaces have also been protected within that larger plan. Because what we're seeing in many places here is that very quickly the accommodation for residents per capita of green space is dwindling very quickly. So, so there's not that kind of protection mechanism in place of those spaces. There's also not been a really clear definition of the types of streetscapes that should be designed and allowing for extra permeability within those spaces. So for example, ensuring that there are swales or rain gardens or permeable pavements, you know, that sort of thing hasn't been legislated in the same way as the density has, nor has incorporating a certain percentage of green roofs. So, you know, I have a colleague here who, who is chair of an association called Grin. And so that's all about green roof infrastructure.
And so they're really promoting that, but also have been disappointed in the kind of response that they're getting that way. So, you know, I think just in parallel with the densification, it can be done very well. You know, I'm not against densification, but it can be done in a better way that is looking towards the future, understanding the issues with storm water that we will be having with increased flooding, with increased weather events, extreme, extreme, you know, the extreme quality of these weather events too, that we need to be then incorporating and integrating nature based solutions into our developments and, and to be ignoring that at this point in time, just.
It. It's just foolish, you know, to not be thinking along those lines.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's. It's obviously extremely foolish and particularly sad when it comes to the origin of the city originally and the times that we're now living in. Of course, you know, and you've come from being in the UK full time, and I know you're still practicing over the UK as well, so I know it's not what's needed for the densification that you've just talked about, but is there anything comparable to biodiversity net gain around Vancouver at the moment, or not?
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad you asked me that. I was. I was just going to mention that next, actually, because, again, I think Vancouver is probably resting on its laurels a little bit more than it should be, perhaps in this point in time. And there is nothing like biodiversity net gain currently. There's a lot of interest in it. I know loads of people have asked me about that and have asked me about the lessons I've learned through biodiversity net gain and how that might be applied here.
There is a huge amount of interest from many people, but again, it's not reached legislation, it's not anywhere close to that. So there's so much nature around Vancouver and even sort of woven through it, that I think the majority of people have not been too concerned about it. They enjoy it. But also probably consider that it's not too much of an issue here compared to many places in the world. And that is true. You know, it is better than probably the majority of the cities in the world, but it still needs attention and it needs preservation and protection and it needs to be legislated so that we don't lose it and that areas that are sort of suffering more that way, in terms of pollinators and biodiversity and, you know, even invertebrates, there's not kind of any attention towards that, whereas that's getting a lot of attention in the uk. So to just keep it top of mind and make sure that even though it might not be a really urgent issue here, although you know that, having said that, it is urgent, it is urgent. So it does need to be incorporated and integrated into all the plans here as well. So anything around climate resilience, sea level rise, also a huge issue that Vancouver will be facing, I believe needs more attention. There's been some attention to that here, but I believe it needs more. So climate resilience, you know, flooding, biodiversity, all of these things need to be addressed and woven into the plans for future.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: So from what you're saying, because of course, this is our first discussion about Vancouver. Specifically, is it a question that we're a little complacent because we've got like quite a nature positive city on the face of it at least, and therefore we don't need to be like panicking about legislation and this, that and the other. But on the other hand, we could easily slide backwards.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: No, yes, exactly. I believe that's the case, that there is complacency. There is sort of an attitude that, well, look around you, there's nature everywhere, so we don't need to do anything else. I'm saying that from the perspective of the politicians and that there's an awful lot of the population here that does care intensely about nature and does want to preserve it. But you know, when, when we're looking at the politicians, they don't necessarily have the same things in mind. So they're more about growth in the economy and just building without necessarily putting in place all the protection mechanisms that should be there for nature.
Yeah.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: And the politics there are a little bit complicated at the moment, like in many places.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Yes, true.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: It doesn't help, does it?
[00:19:28] Speaker B: No, no, it's very difficult. Yeah.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Okay. We won't go down that rabbit hole, obviously, try to avoid that one. Not the main, it's not the main focus of our discussion. So. Okay, you've really pointed out like the potential pitfalls of Vancouver right now, if you like, against the backdrop of its wonderful history and how it is currently, but how that could be lost, you know, relatively easily, let's say, and not be well enough prepared for the challenges that are being faced around the world right now, you know, due to climate change, obviously.
What are you proud of in terms of, are there any special buildings, any special infrastructure projects? Are, are there some highlights that you would like to talk about? So people who aren't in Vancouver would understand that side also?
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Well, like some other cities that I'm aware of, Vancouver has been investing some energy and some money into looking at how the whole shoreline can be prepared for sea level rise and for climate change. And there's been some really beautiful work done by some of the urban design and landscape architecture practices here that show just like what an amazing place it could be, sort of if we start using nature based solutions and introducing more healthy shorelines to incorporate that into protecting the city. So not only is it beautiful, you know, you sort of have these beautiful parks all along the water's edge, but it will act as a buffer to wave action and to erosion and to sea level rise that. That the city will definitely be experiencing in the future. So there's been some really beautiful work done around that I would love to see that move forward more. Um, because there's an awful lot of professionals here that. That understand the concerns and that understand the challenges and are ready to address them, you know, so it's really more the political will now behind those things to have them implemented. But I would say, you know, a lot of that work, I'm really impressed by all the work that I saw done around the shorelines of Vancouver.
So that. That's really wonderful to see.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Thank you so much.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: No, thank you, Jackie. It's been a pleasure.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views, and expert interviews.
